20mm cannon time?

Discussion in 'Weapons, Equipment & Rations' started by Bravo_Bravo, Oct 19, 2009.

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  1. Many years ago I had a couple of weeks with the Bundeswher, and sat through a ( largely tedious ) lecture on their ORBAT. Tedious, until they mentioned the fact that their Fire Support Company had ?quad mounted 20mm cannon.

    I've wondered for a while if this would be of use out in Afg - either in the FOBs, or mounted on FSG vehicles.

    Reading the comments below made me think the subject is worth discussing...

  2. daywalker

    daywalker LE Reviewer

    Im all in for getting bigger guns to play with , so it has my vote !!!!!
  3. The only 20mm cannon I am aware of in German ground forces are the single 20mm mounted on Wiesel vehicles. The Luftwaffe air defence troops used to have towed twin 20mm mounts but they are gone now.
  4. I remember the ZSU-23/4 being used in the ground offensive role in and around Bosnia/Croatia in 1993/4. Highly effective against buildings/personnel and vehicles. Bloody big mess after a few rounds from that anti-aircraft weapon into soft, ground based targets. Something similar in AFG might be a great force multiplier but it would play havoc with the collateral damage statistics!!!
  5. In the German armed forces, the Rheinmetall Rh 202 20 mm is used in the Marder AFV (SPz), the Wiesel light armoured "weapon carrier" and the Luchs reconnaisance veh.

    The twin AA gun was in use until 1992 in the Air Force.

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  6. Isn't the Luchs gone too, replaced by the Fennek?

    I forgot about the Marder; I assume the Wiesel is used by light-role units or those using the Fuchs.
  7. I thought they just had 2 Shilkas embedded in the convoy? And would just let them off the chain if someone decided it was a good idea to.......... oh dear I'm collecting my 72 Virginians.
  8. Marder being replaced by Puma.
  9. I think you'll find something similair, nay identical deployed with the sovs to that very place.

    Didn't affect the outcome with them.
  10. In Chechnya at least they also used ZU-23-2s, twin towed mounts, mounted on trucks and MT-LBs.
  11. Yes, the German armed forces are being "adjusted" to the peace dividend, but, unless they actually sell their stuff to other countries (as they sold the Leopard 2 to 15 other countries) it's still there in some great big warehouse [methinks]. The fact that new stuff is developed does not mean it will be introduced in big series.

    So far, the Fennek is introduced in the German Army with a total of 202 vehicles. The Luchs is still kept in socalled Stabilizierungskraefte or forces of lower readiness.

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  12. Not being funny but why would the need for large calibre small arms? Teres already the 30mm Rarden on Warrior.And CVRT.
  13. msr

    msr LE

    And these will be effective against the IED threat how?

  14. Ilech, why indeed? Being philosophical, I suppose you go to war with the equipment you have (Rumsfeld 2003), some of which was developed 40 years ago. In between, new kinds of operations in new operating environments appear and so new "stuff" is developed and introduced.

    The picture above showing a Fennek and a Dingo is a case in point; below is also a Dingo 2 which of course is an improved version of the Dingo, they all have different pros and cons depending on the scenario - typically in mobility/firepower/protection. More firepower usually means less mobility etc.

    The Dingo is probably good against IEDs, but the puny 7,62 mm MG is less effective than a 30 mm Rarden or Bushmaster II.

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