2019 Tooth to Tail ratio - British Army

#62
Just use the SWAG method and say about 2.5 or 3 to 1.

Not that it really matters, because If it comes down to it, you can convert people to perform other functions.
 
#63
That was the Average age of soldiers in theatre. A popular song was recorded called "nineteen" IMS.

Late edit to add:- Recorded in 1979 by Paul Hardcastle. you tube:- "music .Nineteen"

1985
 
#68
The question could be rephrased in regards to "compared to those expected to engage the enemy", how many does it take to support them.
It gets complicated because, in say a tank, there are 4 crewmen. Only two can actually fire the weapon, so are the other two in support, so is it 3 because you need the loader, so only 1 in support (the driver). However without the driver, the tank wouldn't necessarily be in a position to engage the enemy. Do you count SQMS, QM(T), HQ Sqn (less Recce) and LAD as support staff or teeth.
Easiest answer is pick a number between 1 and 50 using a random generator, times it by your age, then divide it by the number of people who eat Pizza at 1 pm on a Monday in Swindon. Times that by the days since the Brexit Referendum and then say it is about 15 to 1.
 

Bagl0ck

On ROPS
On ROPs
#69
Person Other than Grunt.

The 507th Maintenance Company.
Not 507th parachute infantry regiment? Incidentally mostly landed on dday in a swamp
 
#70
The question could be rephrased in regards to "compared to those expected to engage the enemy", how many does it take to support them.
It gets complicated because, in say a tank, there are 4 crewmen. Only two can actually fire the weapon, so are the other two in support, so is it 3 because you need the loader, so only 1 in support (the driver). However without the driver, the tank wouldn't necessarily be in a position to engage the enemy. Do you count SQMS, QM(T), HQ Sqn (less Recce) and LAD as support staff or teeth.
Easiest answer is pick a number between 1 and 50 using a random generator, times it by your age, then divide it by the number of people who eat Pizza at 1 pm on a Monday in Swindon. Times that by the days since the Brexit Referendum and then say it is about 15 to 1.
Shhh! Opsec, FFS!
 
#72
Don’t let the fuckwit out. We’ve spent ******* months corralling him in his own thread about Milan. You’ll find it oddly titled; something to do with Crab WOs.

It’s our social duty to make the rest of Arsse JG free.
Yes, but it seems I’m on a lone manual approach and all you cünts are giggling in the ICP.
 
#74
The 507th Maintenance company is a reminder, as to why everyone in uniform has to be ready to come into contact.
Indeed it is:
Wayback Machine
https://web.archive.org/web/2009011...es/507thMaintCmpy/AttackOnThe507MaintCmpy.pdf
From the Executive Summary:
The attack on the 507th Maintenance Company at An Nasiriyah was a tragedy not unlike those that have occurred in past conflicts in which this nation has engaged. Although violence and loss of life are realities of combat for Soldiers, the United States Army is committed to understanding this particular event in an effort to learn lessons and provide a means of closure for the families of those who made the ultimate sacrifice. The element of the 507th Maintenance Company that bravely fought through An Nasiriyah found itself in a desperate situation due to a navigational error caused by the combined effects of the operational pace, acute fatigue, isolation and the harsh environmental conditions. The tragic results of this error placed the Soldiers of the 507th Maintenance Company in a torrent of fire from an adaptive enemy employing asymmetrical tactics.

In the unprecedented rapid advance of the ground campaign towards Baghdad, the 507th Maintenance Company was last in a march column of 600 vehicles. The company became isolated, as communications, already stretched to the limit, could not be extended to include them while they recovered heavy wheeled vehicles from soft sand and breakdowns along a cross- country route through the Iraqi desert. Over a period of 60-70 hours with little rest and limited communications, human error further contributed to the situation through a single navigation error that placed these troops in the presence of an adaptive enemy who used asymmetric tactics to exploit the Soldier’s willingness to adhere to the Law of War. Several measures were available to mitigate the risk of such an event, but were either not employed (Brief-back rehearsal) or were ineffective (Traffic Control Point-TCP).

Soldiers fight as they are trained to fight.
Once engaged in battle, the Soldiers of the 507th Maintenance Company fought hard. They fought the best they could until there was no longer a means to resist. They defeated ambushes, overcame hastily-prepared enemy obstacles, defended one another, provided life-saving aid, and inflicted casualties on the enemy. The Soldiers of the 507th upheld the Code of Conduct and followed the Law of War.



The Army’s examination of this event will continue through the lens of Objective Force operations on a non-contiguous battlefield. Operation Iraqi Freedom, though executed with current force capabilities in a joint environment, provided insight into the advantages and vulnerabilities that Army and all ground formations can expect to face in the future. Battle Command, situational awareness, and common leader and Soldier disciplines and skills--the “fundamentals”--down to the lowest levels become critical, perhaps more than ever before. The flexibility and agility required by the Objective Force calls upon the Army as an institution to ensure balanced investments between the advanced capabilities that allow commanders and formations to concentrate effects, and the development and retention of skilled Soldiers who are at least equally adaptive but more versatile than the threats they are likely to face in this century.
 
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#75
Is it not also true that these large numbers of support troops were supporting the ARVN and enabling them to get into the field in large proportions? Not to mention the terrifying South Korean division and other non US combat units?
No, the ARVN and the ROK had their own infrastructure. They may have used US weapons and munitions but they had their own logistics chains.
 
#76
Never mind about this teeth to tail ratio stuff - try and find an easy to understand description of the WW2 version known as the "Division Slice"....

It is detailed in the HMSO official history of the Normandy Invasion but I'll be damned if I have been able to understand it.

As I understand it the "Division Slice" is the manpower required to support a Division in the field. For the US army in WW2 the division (approx 15,000) required a Division Slice of up to 60,000 to keep it in the field.
 
#77
Indeed it is:
Wayback Machine
https://web.archive.org/web/2009011...es/507thMaintCmpy/AttackOnThe507MaintCmpy.pdf
From the Executive Summary:
The attack on the 507th Maintenance Company at An Nasiriyah was a tragedy not unlike those that have occurred in past conflicts in which this nation has engaged. Although violence and loss of life are realities of combat for Soldiers, the United States Army is committed to understanding this particular event in an effort to learn lessons and provide a means of closure for the families of those who made the ultimate sacrifice. The element of the 507th Maintenance Company that bravely fought through An Nasiriyah found itself in a desperate situation due to a navigational error caused by the combined effects of the operational pace, acute fatigue, isolation and the harsh environmental conditions. The tragic results of this error placed the Soldiers of the 507th Maintenance Company in a torrent of fire from an adaptive enemy employing asymmetrical tactics.

In the unprecedented rapid advance of the ground campaign towards Baghdad, the 507th Maintenance Company was last in a march column of 600 vehicles. The company became isolated, as communications, already stretched to the limit, could not be extended to include them while they recovered heavy wheeled vehicles from soft sand and breakdowns along a cross- country route through the Iraqi desert. Over a period of 60-70 hours with little rest and limited communications, human error further contributed to the situation through a single navigation error that placed these troops in the presence of an adaptive enemy who used asymmetric tactics to exploit the Soldier’s willingness to adhere to the Law of War. Several measures were available to mitigate the risk of such an event, but were either not employed (Brief-back rehearsal) or were ineffective (Traffic Control Point-TCP).

Soldiers fight as they are trained to fight.
Once engaged in battle, the Soldiers of the 507th Maintenance Company fought hard. They fought the best they could until there was no longer a means to resist. They defeated ambushes, overcame hastily-prepared enemy obstacles, defended one another, provided life-saving aid, and inflicted casualties on the enemy. The Soldiers of the 507th upheld the Code of Conduct and followed the Law of War.



The Army’s examination of this event will continue through the lens of Objective Force operations on a non-contiguous battlefield. Operation Iraqi Freedom, though executed with current force capabilities in a joint environment, provided insight into the advantages and vulnerabilities that Army and all ground formations can expect to face in the future. Battle Command, situational awareness, and common leader and Soldier disciplines and skills--the “fundamentals”--down to the lowest levels become critical, perhaps more than ever before. The flexibility and agility required by the Objective Force calls upon the Army as an institution to ensure balanced investments between the advanced capabilities that allow commanders and formations to concentrate effects, and the development and retention of skilled Soldiers who are at least equally adaptive but more versatile than the threats they are likely to face in this century.
It does not matter anymore what your MOS or Cap badge/Corps is. The 'Little Green Men" will be everywhere if we got at it with the Russians. Everybody has to be capable of defending themselves.
 
#80
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