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200 mosques in Islams holiest city point the wrong way

#1
Mecca mosques 'wrongly aligned'

Some 200 mosques in Islam's holiest city, Mecca, point the wrong way for prayers, reports from Saudi Arabia say.

All mosques have a niche showing the direction of the most sacred Islamic site, the Kaaba, an ancient cube-like building in Mecca's Grand Mosque.

But people looking down from recently built high-rises in Mecca found the niches in many older mosques were not pointing directly towards the Kaaba.

Some worshippers are said to be anxious about the validity of their prayers.

There have been suggestions that laser beams could be used to make an exact measurement.

Tawfik al-Sudairy, Islamic affairs ministry deputy secretary, downplayed the problem in remarks quoted by the pan-Arab newspaper al-Hayat.

"There are no major errors but corrections have been made for some old mosques, thanks to modern techniques," he said.

"In any case, it does not affect the prayers."


Pravda Link
 
#2
Apparently geographic orientation can mean a lot. An islamic colleague at work tells me that many muslims will not use a toilet that faces either towards or away from Mecca. He also says that some religious muslim males will not use urinals as they want to sit to pee since Mohamed sat to pee. Not sure how they know this. He was discussing another colleague who had made the Haj and had become increasingly religious. The one who told me is not particularly religious.
 
#3
Direction is ALL to the preyers of the Muslims. Not only that they don't like to sh1t and p1ss in that direction, which you can sort of understand. I never used to like thinking naughty things in Church, it is similar.

A Muslim doesn't actually need a Church or Mosque to carry out their preyers, they can just kneel where they are... providing they face the correct direction and have carried out the correct washing and pre-preyer rituals.

Christians wouldn't want to p1ss facing or in their alter would they?
 
#4
The nonsense that comes out in the name of that religion is extraordinary. That said, the claptrap that comes out in the name of druidism and christianity is equal mumbo-jumbo.
 
#5
chocolate_frog said:
A Muslim doesn't actually need a Church or Mosque to carry out their preyers, they can just kneel where they are... providing they face the correct direction and have carried out the correct washing and pre-preyer rituals.
As seen yesterday afternoon at Legoland. Nice to see that some folks dont feel they have to abide to the "keep off the grass" signage and have dispensation on religious grounds.
 
#6
And this has taken how many hundreds of YEARS to work out, I would have thought a simple compass, or back then even Load Stone would have given them a better idea?

My only other comment now is AND?
 
#8
CharlieBubbles said:
And this has taken how many hundreds of YEARS to work out, I would have thought a simple compass, or back then even Load Stone would have given them a better idea?
No. Visual surveying would have been better, a lodestone compass would have been far too error prone; don't forget it points magnetic north, which itself drifts, and not towards Qibla so there would have to be a means of calculating the necessary offset anyway.

The main problem with getting concerned about direction is the allowable tolerance. Assuming one had a 'perfect' direction along which to point, it is highly unlikely that any human would have sufficient knowledge of their anatomy to determine their alignment with respect to that line. Even if they did, they would still face the problem of knowing the direction to Qibla to arbitrary precision. Let's say someone had a high-tech compass (eg, http://www.bablas.co.uk/casio-islamic-prayer-digital-watch-cpw3101vds-p-1288.html ) - how accurately do you think that would allow someone to know the direction, and how far off (metres) Qibla do you think they'd be if they were in Bradford? (question for the snipers and artillery types). Now consider you're on a pitching, heaving, yawing boat or a passenger on a 747 or whizzing round the planet in a spacecraft.

Could be an interesting psywar application here - spread rumours to Terry that he's been praying to the wrong place and that's why he's going to lose. It won't work on anybody with a bit of common sense, but may get the more literally-minded slightly confused.
 
#9
Does this mean THEY will have to knock these places of worship down and start again?

As for Terry Taliban, have THEY actaully been in a Mosque and prayed, as we all know, all Muslims will get their prayer mat out and pray where ever they are, how do they know which way Mecca face when they are out in the middle of nowhere?

Perhaps they should have placed their Mosques next to a Christian place of worship, they always face EAST! . . . . :wink:

After all, it is the SAME God . . .
 
#10
It's an interesting dilemma facing the pious when they fly arpund Mecca during prayer. The larger Saudi Arabian Airlines planes used to have (and may well still do) a section of seats removed to allow for prayer. As we all know the airspace above Mecca is sacred, so planes take a route around Mecca to avoid that airspace, thus causing much shuffling of muslim backsides as they follow the arrow pointing to the Qibla.
 
#13
Excognito said:
CharlieBubbles said:
And this has taken how many hundreds of YEARS to work out, I would have thought a simple compass, or back then even Load Stone would have given them a better idea?
No. Visual surveying would have been better, a lodestone compass would have been far too error prone; don't forget it points magnetic north, which itself drifts, and not towards Qibla so there would have to be a means of calculating the necessary offset anyway.

The main problem with getting concerned about direction is the allowable tolerance. Assuming one had a 'perfect' direction along which to point, it is highly unlikely that any human would have sufficient knowledge of their anatomy to determine their alignment with respect to that line. Even if they did, they would still face the problem of knowing the direction to Qibla to arbitrary precision. Let's say someone had a high-tech compass (eg, http://www.bablas.co.uk/casio-islamic-prayer-digital-watch-cpw3101vds-p-1288.html ) - how accurately do you think that would allow someone to know the direction, and how far off (metres) Qibla do you think they'd be if they were in Bradford? (question for the snipers and artillery types). Now consider you're on a pitching, heaving, yawing boat or a passenger on a 747 or whizzing round the planet in a spacecraft.

Could be an interesting psywar application here - spread rumours to Terry that he's been praying to the wrong place and that's why he's going to lose. It won't work on anybody with a bit of common sense, but may get the more literally-minded slightly confused.

Your average prismatic compass will give you bearing to+/- 20 mills, but I guess it all comes down to something I couldn't really say I know the answer to, which is whether its ok to fire off a prayer from State Alpha? ISTR if nothing else that if you had any means to obtain state Bravo you should do, but in extremis... (action, action, action, pray right!)
 
#14
It always made me laugh the last time I was working in a sandy place. The Arab workforce would stop work and look to their elder to find the "correct direction" - invariably it was wrong sometimes by as much as a 100 deg!

They wouldn't lose face by asking the infidel who actually had a GPS and could give direction distance and travelling time if required! I was giggling too much to offer. Glad to have assisted in invalidating some of the prayers now.
 

Command_doh

LE
Book Reviewer
#17
What is the point of this thread? Everyone (or so I thought) knows that prostrating himself before Allah daily and facing the Kabba stone/East is an important part of a pious Muslims daily life, and worthy of extreme consideration and concern if something is remiss.

So is this another 'haha, silly Muslims' thread? Because if it is, the fingermen will be round your houses to exterminate you for your 'race/religious hate'...
 
#18
Command_doh said:
What is the point of this thread? Everyone (or so I thought) knows that prostrating himself before Allah daily and facing the Kabba stone/East is an important part of a pious Muslims daily life, and worthy of extreme consideration and concern if something is remiss.

So is this another 'haha, silly Muslims' thread? Because if it is, the fingermen will be round your houses to exterminate you for your 'race/religious hate'...
Let's hope the fingermen pop round to see the hatred and bile spouted in the mosques in KSA then!! :D

There's more chance of plaiting diarrhoea!
 

Command_doh

LE
Book Reviewer
#19
KSA funds a hell of a lot of jihad, and of course the Taliban (in many ways, but not exclusively), but you can't talk about that as they spend a lot of cash in the U.S. and then there is Saudi Aramco and all that black stuff to 'safeguard' by keeping out of China's hands...
 
#20
Command_doh said:
KSA funds a hell of a lot of jihad, and of course the Taliban (in many ways, but not exclusively), but you can't talk about that as they spend a lot of cash in the U.S. and then there is Saudi Aramco and all that black stuff to 'safeguard' by keeping out of China's hands...
The dilemma of the house of Saud!

Fortunately Abdullah is a reformist and is trying to drag the country into this century.
 

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