2 years after Herc crash - foam still not fitted

#1
Words fail me.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4963746.stm

RAF pilots 'asked for tank foam'

The deaths were the single biggest loss of life in Iraq

The deaths of 10 UK personnel in Iraq in January 2005 could have been avoided if a safety device was fitted to their Hercules plane, the BBC has learned.

RAF pilots requested that explosive- suppressant foam devices be fitted to fuel tanks two years before the attack in which the men died, RAF papers show.

The Ministry of Defence said none of its planes in Iraq or Afghanistan have the foam, but some will be fitted soon.

The foam has been in use in US Hercules aircraft since the Vietnam war.

The attack happened on 30 January, 2005, when the Hercules was hit by ground-to-air fire which caused an explosion in the right hand wing fuel tank.

A board of inquiry said the crash was not survivable but did admit that the lack of a fuel tank safety system could have contributed to the crash.

The crash was the single largest loss of British life in Iraq since military action began in 2003.

With the continued lack of foam on Hercules planes, campaigners say they will sue ministers for corporate manslaughter if any more lives are lost because of a lack of protective equipment.
If any donation is needed to bring a lawsuit, I am sure there are many who will open their wallets.
 
#2
Since when has anybody listened to RAF pilots? They only fly the things.

The decision was probably made by some pen pusher with a calculator on the fifth floor of a London office.

It might help if HMG listened to the people in the know rather than ignoring them or blaming them for damaging the grass on the Mull of Kintyre.
 
#3
BBC Radio 4 'Today' programme asked MoD for an interview, but they refused.

It certainly puts the money spent on all those paintings in Main Building in perspective, doesn't it?
 
#4
It must be one of the basic requirements if posted to the 'white elephant' at MOD to evade the truth and keep your head down.

The MOD don't help themselves at times like this by just displaying a head in the sand attitude. :x

fastmedic
 
#5
Lets be honest is anyone really surprised!?
 
#6
Typical of the MOD. The cnuts don't give a flying fcuk for the guys and gals at the sharp end - they never have either.
 
#8
Un-Friendly-Fire said:
That's seriously absolutely disgusting what the government are doing.
Consulting a legal team if there's going to be proceedings.

Sympathy is an admission of guilt, apparently.
 

chimera

LE
Moderator
#9
Andyroo said:
Typical of the MOD. The cnuts don't give a flying fcuk for the guys and gals at the sharp end - they never have either.
Maybe. But don't forget that the MOD is unique as a Govt Department in having "subject matter experts" - i.e. serving service people - on the staff (you don't see farmers working in DEFRA, of doctors in Health etc). These people will have been at the sharp and, and will almost certainly go back there.
 
#10
Via hercules not equipped with foam or ecm and the travel around in second rate armoured vechicles .This war is costing billions where is it going ?
 
#11
Mmm - I wonder if the aircraft that fly "Dear-leader" around have got any protection fitted ???
 
#12
Mover said:
Mmm - I wonder if the aircraft that fly "Dear-leader" around have got any protection fitted ???
I would imagine shite has the same flame retardant properties as foam.
 
#13
chimera said:
Maybe. But don't forget that the MOD is unique as a Govt Department in having "subject matter experts" - i.e. serving service people - on the staff (you don't see farmers working in DEFRA, of doctors in Health etc). These people will have been at the sharp and, and will almost certainly go back there.
This is very true. But it is important to remember that the advice of those SME's/Desk Officers is not always listened to, especially when it comes down to cost. 100's of great ideas are dismissed out of hand because of penny pinching, sometimes at a very low level (SO1/SO2). Example: For an average cost of £10k per airframe we could have a very effective airbag system fitted to our current fleet of helicopters (don't mock, they work), chances of it happening...nil, why ? money.

What price a life.
 
#15
floppyjocky said:
This is very true. But it is important to remember that the advice of those SME's/Desk Officers is not always listened to, especially when it comes down to cost. 100's of great ideas are dismissed out of hand because of penny pinching, sometimes at a very low level (SO1/SO2). Example: For an average cost of £10k per airframe we could have a very effective airbag system fitted to our current fleet of helicopters (don't mock, they work), chances of it happening...nil, why ? money.

What price a life.
They already have, - it eats pies and sits in the front :D :D

(sorry Floppy - couldn't resist!!).
 
#16
It's a fair cop guv
 
#17
BBC News

The explosive-suppressant foam stops fuel tanks from exploding when pierced by bullets. One US plane shot 19 times in Iraq still managed to land safely.
It would be interesting to know when the attack on the US aircraft occurred, if it was prior to the downing of our C130 then how much more proof of the value and absolute necessity of this modification did the MoD need?

mistersoft said:
Since when has anybody listened to RAF pilots? They only fly the things.

The decision was probably made by some pen pusher with a calculator on the fifth floor of a London office.

It might help if HMG listened to the people in the know rather than ignoring them or blaming them for damaging the grass on the Mull of Kintyre.
Hear hear. Definitely a case of negligence I'd say.
 
#18
Quotes] pilots requested that explosive- suppressant foam devices be fitted to fuel tanks two years before the attack in which the men died,


The Ministry of Defence said none of its planes in Iraq or Afghanistan have the foam, but some will be fitted soon.

So please can the M.O.D. give all the troops what they require please , My point being soon could mean days,months,years .

Our troops lives are very important to us ,This should not be allowed to happen again.
 

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