2 MI Bn Ex GREEN WARRIOR

[PartyLineGang]

Another 2 MI Bn GREEN WARRIOR has drawn to a close with a misty eyed 'ENDEX' so, let's here it.

A well resourced, well structured and focussed PDT package or a waste of time? Balanced and progressive or an unjustified thrashing? Enjoyable or, frankly, dull? A good Sect building event or a chance for the DS to enhance their OJARs/SJARs?

Relevant, realistic, rewarding or reprehensible?

I think we need to break off from the " MI Bn Concentration Camp thread. Ex GREEN WARRIOR is a long way from the Ex GREEN METTLE and the 'jamboree' that we've had in the past. So, have your say.

 

[Op_Int_and_Spy]

With that post you're certainly trying to enhance your own SJAR! Why not work hard to get up that Bn gradings board rather than suck up!

 

[CRmeansCeilingReached]

With that post you're certainly trying to enhance your own SJAR! Why not work hard to get up that Bn gradings board rather than suck up!

think you'll find the PLG sitting at the table during those grading boards matey, so it's not exactly sucking up

 

[Op_Int_and_Spy]

With that post you're certainly trying to enhance your own SJAR! Why not work hard to get up that Bn gradings board rather than suck up!

think you'll find the PLG sitting at the table during those grading boards matey, so it's not exactly sucking up

Everyone is on a gradings board somewhere...........

 

[adastra]

With that post you're certainly trying to enhance your own SJAR! Why not work hard to get up that Bn gradings board rather than suck up!

Given she may be trying to enhance her own OJAR, perhaps just solicit some genuine feedback?

But probably not sat on your grading board though.

PS: Sorry I seem to have wildly skewed the voting on this, but the strategic analysts amongst you will have worked that out already

 

[PartyLineGang]

With that post you're certainly trying to enhance your own SJAR! Why not work hard to get up that Bn gradings board rather than suck up!

Op Int & Spy,

If only sucking up would make a difference to where I sit in the Bn. The PLG are merely inviting comments on Ex GREEN WARRIOR - good and bad. If sucking up was my aim, then I'm clearly running the risk of highlighting lots of negative opinions for all to see.

Ex GREEN WARRIOR is not perfect and everyone involved in it from the CO downwards would probably agree to varying degrees but it is undobtedly a damn sight better than it used be. We've taken a detailed look at what is required of a CI/Sy operator and the Sect in theatre and tried to develop a package which prepares our soldiers in the round.

Whether we've hit the mark or not is for our soldiers to judge and rather than simply accepting the postive comments offered during the exercise, an Arrse thread will, I hope, generate a debate about where we're at with regards to PDT and where we need to be.

Don't be so cynical.

 

[Op_Int_and_Spy]

With that post you're certainly trying to enhance your own SJAR! Why not work hard to get up that Bn gradings board rather than suck up!

Op Int & Spy,

If only sucking up would make a difference to where I sit in the Bn. The PLG are merely inviting comments on Ex GREEN WARRIOR - good and bad. If sucking up was my aim, then I'm clearly running the risk of highlighting lots of negative opinions for all to see.

Ex GREEN WARRIOR is not perfect and everyone involved in it from the CO downwards would probably agree to varying degrees but it is undobtedly a damn sight better than it used be. We've taken a detailed look at what is required of a CI/Sy operator and the Sect in theatre and tried to develop a package which prepares our soldiers in the round.

Whether we've hit the mark or not is for our soldiers to judge and rather than simply accepting the postive comments offered during the exercise, an Arrse thread will, I hope, generate a debate about where we're at with regards to PDT and where we need to be.

Don't be so cynical.

I disagree. All an ARRSE thread will do is invite the fat and lazy who didn't want to attend to slag the Ex - as has been done previously.

There is no such thing as a perfect Ex anyway and whether it was any good I can't comment on - not with 2 MI.

If training doesn't hit the mark, this can only be judged after those being trained have done the task they've been trained (or not as the case may be) for. Either way, I would suggest this isn't the forum for such debate. It's rather concerning that we're breeding a Corps of yes men that don't have the moral courage to speak up when something is wrong. Unfortunately those that do are branded as some type of troublemaker (in the main).

Cynical? I prefer realist!

 

[PartyLineGang]

[/quote]

I disagree. All an ARRSE thread will do is invite the fat and lazy who didn't want to attend to slag the Ex - as has been done previously.

There is no such thing as a perfect Ex anyway and whether it was any good I can't comment on - not with 2 MI.

If training doesn't hit the mark, this can only be judged after those being trained have done the task they've been trained (or not as the case may be) for. Either way, I would suggest this isn't the forum for such debate. It's rather concerning that we're breeding a Corps of yes men that don't have the moral courage to speak up when something is wrong. Unfortunately those that do are branded a some type of troublemaker (in the main).

Cynical? I prefer realist![/quote]

Op Int & Spy,

A swift response. Difficult to see what your interest is in this thread if you weren't on the Ex and are not on 2 MI Bn's books but I appreciate your views.

Of course, the most credible form of 'ground truthing' comes from those who have recently attended Ex GREEN WARRIOR and have subsequently gone on to complete a HERRICK tour. On each iteration of Ex GW, we have theatre briefs from those either in, or recently returned from, Afghanistan and the writing team also includes those with relevant HERRICK experience.

I disagree with your premise that Arrse is not the forum for such a debate - this is exactly what the Arrse forums are for. Let's engage in a frank debate - no names, no pack drill. In an ideal world we would get the, 'With all due respect Sir/Ma'am, I think this is.....' face to face but it doesn't happen that way.

Moral courage may be an issue for some but at least on Arrse people can have their say anonymously.

PLG

 

[Op_Int_and_Spy]

Op Int & Spy,

A swift response. Difficult to see what your interest is in this thread if you weren't on the Ex and are not on 2 MI Bn's books but I appreciate your views.

Of course, the most credible form of 'ground truthing' comes from those who have recently attended Ex GREEN WARRIOR and have subsequently gone on to complete a HERRICK tour. On each iteration of Ex GW, we have theatre briefs from those either in, or recently returned from, Afghanistan and the writing team also includes those with relevant HERRICK experience.

I disagree with your premise that Arrse is not the forum for such a debate - this is exactly what the Arrse forums are for. Let's engage in a frank debate - no names, no pack drill. In an ideal world we would get the, 'With all due respect Sir/Ma'am, I think this is.....' face to face but it doesn't happen that way.

Moral courage may be an issue for some but at least on Arrse people can have their say anonymously.

PLG

I'm in the Intelligence Corps! I have served with the Bn before and hope to again. It does have the best locns in the UK, and Netheravon!

 

[PartyLineGang]

I'm in the Intelligence Corps! I have served with the Bn before and hope to again. It does have the best locns in the UK, and Netheravon!

Op Int & Spy,

OK then, let's hear your impartial view.

What form of PDT should 2 MI Bn adopt? What do you think MUST be included and what's a 'nice to have'. Do we need to balance trade skills with broader military skills or intelligence management with command and leadership? Is there a need for physical stamina? Do we need a live range package or an FTX phase?

Should we abandon it in favour of bolting on to an Inf BG or Bde going through an OPTAG delivered package, CAST or MRX? Can anyone else deliver CI/Sy trg for 2 MI Bn?

 

[chocolate_frog]

Oh goody, another thread where the Int Corps whinge about being forced out of their offices for a week or two, a la previous Concentration Camp threads....

Why hasn´t anyone commented on their "real time commitments" yet? And "when was the last time we had to.... go over an assault cse/fire our gun/get out of bed .... on ops?".

Still, at least the adventure training thread had none of the above and was only a post or two long....

 

[ALREADYJACKEDGENIUS]

. ..... Difficult to see what your interest is in this thread if you weren't on the Ex and are not on 2 MI Bn's books but I appreciate your views.

From a personal perspective, having sunk over 10 years of my life into 2 MI Bn and its precurrsor, I might ( even as a fat, jack, civvy b@stard,) be forgiven for taking an interest, and perhaps passing comment?

In my day, esprit de corps was not on your 1157, so I kept hold of mine when I left. ( I have some buckshee if you need any )

Sonds like a geat opportunity to round the whole exercise off with an ICA funded smoker and get some of the local ICA Region in?

Can anyone else deliver CI/Sy trg for 2 MI Bn?

I know of at least 1 contractor, active in ICAREC, based in the 2 Bde area who would be more than happy to give you a capability-rich proposal for exercise VIGILANT MARSH.
As the training sponsor you would simply need to outline the objectives, conditions, performance and standards.

 

[Op_Int_and_Spy]

I'm in the Intelligence Corps! I have served with the Bn before and hope to again. It does have the best locns in the UK, and Netheravon!

Op Int & Spy,

OK then, let's here your impartial view.

What form of PDT should 2 MI Bn adopt? What do you think MUST be included and what's a 'nice to have'. Do we need to balance trade skills with broader military skills or intelligence management with command and leadership? Is there a need for physical stamina? Do we need a live range package or an FTX phase?

Should we abandon it in favour of bolting on to an Inf BG or Bde going through an OPTAG delivered package, CAST or MRX? Can anyone else deliver CI/Sy trg for 2 MI Bn?

I'm not sure my views are ever impartial! I would argue that the whole Ex could be binned and the in-theatre capability wouldn't diminish massively. As a minimum, your MATTs, OPTAG and you're good to deploy. As earleir said though I don't think this is the place for an in-depth discussion on PDT. I'm slightly puzzled as to why it's referred to as PDT though. If that's the case then why put the whole Bn on it?

 

[pointyhead]

Sonds like a geat opportunity to round the whole exercise off with an ICA funded smoker and get some of the local ICA Region in?

And if that is your perception of what pre deployment training should comprise, then IMHO, it is probably just as well that you are no longer in a position to influence what is/is not included in the training programme.

 

[pointyhead]

I would argue that the whole Ex could be binned and the in-theatre capability wouldn't diminish massively. As a minimum, your MATTs, OPTAG and you're good to deploy.

Exactly what world are you living in?

I'm slightly puzzled as to why it's referred to as PDT though. If that's the case then why put the whole Bn on it?

Sorry to dispel another myth, but the only elms of the Bn that were on the Ex, as per the last 18 months, were those deploying and those essential to deliver the trg.

 

[ALREADYJACKEDGENIUS]

Sonds like a geat opportunity to round the whole exercise off with an ICA funded smoker and get some of the local ICA Region in?

And if that is your perception of what pre deployment training should comprise, then IMHO, it is probably just as well that you are no longer in a position to influence what is/is not included in the training programme.

I don't think I was commenting there, on the content or conduct of pre-deployment training, rather that the end of the event, would provide an opportunity to promote some wider esprit de corps.

Is there something wrong with that? do I detect the distant flash of the strobes indicating that the fun police are approaching?


Forbid that there should be a casualty, but the local ICA Region might just be of some help then.

 

[Dontdreamit]

 

[pointyhead]

Are you a moron?

If you are a SNCO or above then you need to have a f"cking serious word with yourself about the duty of care you have to the men and women below you.

Sending troops off to theatre having passed an APWT and a quick SERE brief on OPTAG is not the mark of a good Commander. I suppose it would be to much trouble to drag you away from your riveting posts on stable belts and wearing uniform in public to actually consider the training that soldiers need before deploying against suicidal enemies.

Awesome post matey. I could not agree more.

 

[PartyLineGang]

As a minimum, your MATTs, OPTAG and you're good to deploy.

So where does your theatre specific and role specific training fit in? How can we offer commanders counter-intelligence advice unless we have a detailed understanding of the sy threats in theatre? On the last Ex GW, those about to deploy prepared a 'real time' theatre SIPE brief, used the current Theatre Sy Directive/report formats and were exercised using downgraded/re-worked CI casework from HERRICK as well as being introduced to HERRICK TTPs/R2 on the 'Green Skills' side.

Is there not a clear advantage to this? How can we bind disparate CI/Sy operators into a cohesive Sect without exercising them? How can we be confident that they can deliver what is required of them as individuals and as a CI/Sy Sect?

 

[ALREADYJACKEDGENIUS]

So where does your theatre specific and role specific training fit in? How can we offer commanders counter-intelligence advice unless we have a detailed understanding of the sy threats in theatre? On the last Ex GW, those about to deploy prepared a 'real time' theatre SIPE brief, used the current Theatre Sy Directive/report formats and were exercised using downgraded/re-worked CI casework from HERRICK as well as being introduced to HERRICK TTPs/R2 on the 'Green Skills' side.

Is there not a clear advantage to this? How can we bind disparate CI/Sy operators into a cohesive Sect without exercising them? How can we be confident that they can deliver what is required of them as individuals and as a CI/Sy Sect?

But it was so much more fun muddling through and making it up as you go along.

Seriously as a relative outsider now, this seems like good news. Far better than b0110cking people for poor pistol drills, when they have not touched one for 6 years, and misguided Warrant Officers getting injured, trying to keep up with their soldiers, doing things like house assaults, that none of their Infantry counterparts would do