1st in a series of questions about CR's

#1
My first question for now is, on a CR the OC's & CO's comments boxes. Is it common practice for the OC to always write the CO's Draft and knowing that the CO has not had any input into it whatsoever. It may seem petty to ask however, is it legal/allowed - there may be trouble ahead..............answers on a postcard please.

There is some real shit to fly soon once all me questions have been answered.................Thanks
 
#4
RockaHulaBaby said:
My first question for now is, on a CR the OC's & CO's comments boxes. Is it common practice for the OC to always write the CO's Draft and knowing that the CO has not had any input into it whatsoever.
I would hope it wasn't common. I've never seen it done, but my experience is limited.....

If the CO is your next reporting officer, he should know you well enough to write his own comments. If he lets the OC write a draft, it had better be because the CO asked for them.... (although IMHO it would indicate an idle or overworked CO) .... an OC putting in unsolicited draft comments would deserve a slap from the CO.

"CO new to the job and doesn't know you" isn't an excuse; your CR should have been brought forward if that was the case.

As ever, go to the manual in the orderly room marked "How to write CRs" for the definitive answer.....
 
#5
This is common practice unless the CO does know you. The CO is responsible for writing the CR of all Cpls eligible for promotion, all seniors and the officers. Therefore, it is likely that your PCCoy 2 IC will write part 1 and the OC will write part 2 for the CO. If the person they are writing it for (OC/CO) disagrees, they will tell the guy tp rewrite it. My advice - make sure whoever is writing your CR knows you and knows what you've done this past year. You might've worked your balls off, but if no-one knows...
 
#6
Thanks for your valued comments, It is greatly appreciated. I have not fallen out with my OC, I have been placed in a very undesirable position where I am pulling my hair out.

Firstly I have been reading the links on Redressing of CR's, that has given me some inspiration to really deal with this one.

Having been happy all my military life with my CR's that I have had. I have come to a point in my life of CR's because having come to a new unit, beleiving that I have been doing things the right way, understanding the way of life, however this is not the case for some in my unit. The write up on my CR is good in the eyes of the OC/CO (in their words as explained to me) but the comments, I believe are totally out of order as they are reflecting me in a vindictive sort of way. I am not after promotion just that I would like my CR to be a true reflection of me and the job I do and the effort I put in. The boxes and grade however do not reflect in any way the write up on the OC's Draft. (Sorry, I cannot go into too much detail)

I have not put forward my feelings yet as I am inexperienced in this area and am meerley seeking advice, sometimes just putting your feelings across make it easier to understand and getting valuable info from here really helps. I would normally just be happy and crack on with life but I am not too pleased with this matter. Cheers for your help too. There is, of course more in my position.
 
#7
What did your MYA have to say - any surprises - if I may temperately say - if it is factual - no leg to stand on springs to mind - just step back and reflect - it helps beleive me :wink:
 
#8
Stabtastic No, neither.

There is some valuable advice here to be gained. I will read all replies with interest and decide what path to take. The only problem I have, is that I have signed both parts. Does that matter in any way. Please understand, this no push for a promotion just an honest and fair request for a true reflection of the person that I am your honour.......................There is an end to my rainbow......somewhere
 
#10
This rather depends on what rank you are. If you are a Cpl then it is unrealistic (certainly in a big Regt) to expect the CO to know everyone of that rank well enough to write a CR from scratch. Additionally, there could be 50 - 60 Cpls to write on and that is a huge amount of work for anyone. Most COs would have previously agreed an order of merit across the Regt in conjunction with other key people - OCs, RSM, RCMO etc etc. This will then form the basis of a Top, Middle, Lower third report. If you are a SNCO, then the CO would, hopefully, know you better, however, input will still be required from the sub unit Comd or HoD. The comments about CO's having no input are bollox. Ultimately, it is the CO who signs Part 2 of the report so he has to be happy with what has been written. You get your opportunity to challenge what is said during the interview process (or afterwards as a redress). You should be clear, however, that you cannot legitimately challenge what the CO thinks about you - that is his opinion; you can however, dispute any factual discrepancies. Anyone who hasn't had to write CRs on a large number of people is unlikely to understand what a challenging process it can be. It is vital to get it right but no system is perfect. Nonetheless it is one of the most important processes that is done in peacetime and must be treated as such by the chain of command. In my experience it usually is.
 
#11
Have been currently 1 yr, don't understand MTA/MYA etc. It may well be a case of suck it and see, or oh well, but this is more out of principle and maybe some professionalism.

I do have faith in the system though. Although I am not a whinger........honestly
 
#12
MYA/MTA = Mid Year Appraisal/Mid Term Appraisal. If you had one which indicated that all was well, and the CR contradicts that view then this would indicate grounds for redress or representation against the CR.

The fact that you have signed the CR only matters if you are now outside the timeline (3 months I think - but you will need to check with your RAOWO) for submission of a redress or a representation.

I have been out of the field for a while now, but I think a representation is merely a statement by you which goes with the CR, indicating that you disagree with the RO's comments. A redress seeks to have the report changed based on a factual inaccuracy within the report, not the fact that you merely disagree with one or other, or both, of the RO's comments.

Hope that helps!
 
#13
As a first up you should speak to your OC / CO and request an interview to explain your feelings about the CR and why you are unhappy with it. This can often go a long way in either getting the CR changed or you leaving with a better understanding of what the OC/CO is trying to say. Make sure you go armed with exactly where you are unhappy. eg: 'I dont like this phrase as it make me seem dis-organised', or 'you didn't mention the fact I served on Op TELIC and the work I was invloved in to re-build the community centre' etc. Just going in and saying i'm not really happy about my CR will not get you anywhere. Most OCs/COs are genuinely trying to do there best by their soldiers and spend a long time trying to make sure reports are fair and accurate. Most are also big enough to admit if they made a mistake or if something has been badly worded.

If you are still not satisfied you have a number of options. You may use all, a selection, or none of them as fits your circumstances.

1. If you were not given a Mid Year Appraisal (You will have had to sign this so you should remember) then you should be able to argue quite strongly that you were not warned that your performance was felt by the OC/CO to be short of the mark and so therefore you had no oportunity to try and put this right.

2. You can ask to have an RCMO's interview. As MCM Divs direct representative they will be able to give you advice straight from the horses mouth and your chain of command are likely to follow any advice given them by the RCMO.

3. You can submit a representation. This will sit with your CR on your file at MCM Div and is your chance to reply and put your side of the story about the comments in the CR. However you should take note that this may not be as effective as you might wish as these do not appear to go down very well on promotion boards at MCM Div as they often make you come across as a bit of a whinger.

4. Finally if there are factual mistakes in your CR or key events and activities that you have done have not been included then you may submit a redress. This goes upto MCM Div and if your complaint is upheld your chain of command will be instructed to re-write your CR.

I hope this helps. PM me if you need any more info.
 
#15
You may not be after promotion this year but if you do not take the neccessary action to correct what you feel is an inaccurate reflection of your years work in years to come you will look back and say it is due to the CR 2 years ago, which the board may well be looking at ?
 

chimera

LE
Moderator
#16
I second the excellent post by Ethel Aardvark above. You will find that a CO will have Part 2 drafted by the OC, but will then use this draft as the basis for his comments, and to balance up NCOs across the whole unit. COs take MS and CR business very seriously - indeed it takes up a huge proportion of their time and never stops (there were CRs and OJAR folders still moving around on TELIC 1) - so to say a CO has 'no input' is totally wrong. Nevertheless, as others above rightly state, particularly for corporals, where in a CS or CSS Arm unit there may be 80 - 90 of them, there are too many for the CO to regulalrly see their performance close up on a day to day basis. If you have a view on a specific comment of fact (rather than say arguing about whether the CO puts you in the top third, middle third, bottom third etc which is his opinion) then raise it.
 
#17
This is of no use to poster but may show how things have changed. Back in 60s I had a middle level sort of 50/50 good/poor CR. In those days there was nothing one could do when presented with CR other than sign it. I chose to swallow the dodgy CR knowing that CO was going in few months, incoming bloke knew me well and I had chance to show myself better. Just to annoy the outgoing CO I started - as a WOII - campaign to ensure that there was a section on CR where person reported could give opinion of the guy reporting on him. Also made point that our senior WOI be present when crs were reviewed centrally. No joy then but nice to see how things have changed. I got accelerted to WOI next time round so bitching seems to have done no harm.
 
B

Biscuits_AB

Guest
#18
RockaHulaBaby said:
My first question for now is, on a CR the OC's & CO's comments boxes. Is it common practice for the OC to always write the CO's Draft and knowing that the CO has not had any input into it whatsoever. It may seem petty to ask however, is it legal/allowed - there may be trouble ahead..............answers on a postcard please.

There is some real s*** to fly soon once all me questions have been answered.................Thanks
Whether it is common practice or not, it is wrong and if you were able to prove that this had occurred should you seek redress, you will successfully win your redress. If the CO doesn't know you, there are spaces on the ACR for him/her to declare the he/she doesn't, does so adequately or does so well.

If he doesn't know you, he may very well support the input from your 1st RO on that basis but, if he/she does then they should comment on the ACR that that is what they have done.

If your 1 st RO writes a draft for your 2nd RO, then this is 'foul play' as he/she has shown bias either for or against you. The 2nd RO has been influenced by the 1st and this is fundamentally wrong.

PM if you want any more.
 
#19
Just a small point leading on with CR's but at the next level up ie (MCM), would it be fair to say that the small box maked MRO USE ONLY is to be date stamped prior to a CR being officially, formally recieved then processed through the promotion system and put onto a promotion board at MCM DIV. And if so when an individual requests copies of his original past CR's on his career portfolio this date stamp is not annotated on a CR, then perhaps the CR's that are diffy this date information may quiet possibly have never been boarded at all??
 
#20
Thanks for all the advice some of the replies have been excellent and really to the point. Now its my turn,

What I have found that once the CR's have been signed/dated and ushered out the door, not given much of a chance to view with the CO except just try a little harder this reporting year and you will be my best etc etc.....the sheer incompetence that you see when the people employed to do their job by reporting and commenting on YOU show no moral judgements, personal and incorrect portrayal of the facts. Oh well - I can't put it exactly into words at this time but I am advised to let it be and don't worry.

I am far from worried, just pithed off that top brass can't seem to do things right from time to time, I aint the only one except look after number one and watch your back out there.

Thanks million arrse....what a site
 

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