1st British officer killed in ww1 ( at mons ?)

#21
Cuddles said:
Maurice Dease of the R Fus was usually cited as the first British officer to be killed by enemy action (23rd August) at Mons. He also won the VC posthumously. The two RFC officers were killed in an accident but they were a)killed a day earlier and b)definitely killed. Perhaps Lt. Dease is a more glamourous death?

Incidentally Maurice dease and a couple of hundred other names are commemorated on a wooden cross near the A46 in South Glos. nobody seems to understand why these names are here acommermorated, as the individuals come from a wide variety of regiments and backgrounds. I have a theory that this is something to do with the public school camps for the less advantaged - which would account for the likes of Dease and young men from inner-cities being commemorated out in the uhlu.

Any ideas??
Cuddles ,

Interesting stuff, and I will chase the story of the cross at the A 46.

However, Dease is not the first officer killed on 23 August. He is mortally wounded around 1310 hrs, according to Jck Horsfall and Nigel Cave's very detailed book on Mons in the Battleground Europe series. He isn't even the first 4 RF officer to be killed, as by the time Dease is mortally wounded Captains Forester, Lt Mead and EC Smith were already dead in the fighting by the road bridge at Nimy. The VC means that his name is better known than any other officers killed at Mons.

Waterfall and Bayly, the aircrew deserve far better recognition that they get. They were part of the first ever sucessful recce flight. I have attached a copy of what is possibly the earliest surviving air reconnasiance report -written by this Waterfall and Bayly on the day of their death. They were also killed on an operational mission,carrying out a dangerous task. They should be heroes for the AAC and RAF.

Checking through Cave and Horsfell's trainspotters guide we have another candidate for the first british Officer Killed at Mons.

Lt H Wilfred Holt Royal Engineers

http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=894857

Between 0830 and 1030hrs a Lt HW Holt RE is killed on the Northern Bank of the Conde Canal when his Engineers are rushed before they can blow the bridges in front of 4/ Middlesex. Cave and Horsfell claim he has the "dubious distinction of being the first RE officer killed in WW1."

Is he also the first British Army Officer killed in action in the Great War? Can someone suggest a better candidate?
 

Attachments

#22
Some sources suggest that Waterfall and Bayly were brought down by ground fire, which would perhaps give them the dubious distinction of being the first officers killed.

I don't think that they were the first successful recce flight - that honour probably belongs to 2nd Lt Wadham & Captain Charlton, who started 15 minutes earlier than Waterfall and Bayly. Wadham and Charlton also returned safely (Charlton eventually ending life as an Air Commodore with a distinctly er... interesting lifestyle).
 
#23
Archimedes said:
I don't think that they were the first successful recce flight - that honour probably belongs to 2nd Lt Wadham & Captain Charlton, who started 15 minutes earlier than Waterfall and Bayly.
Ok, lets rephrase that - as the first sucessful operation, resulting in the correct identification of v Klucks army on the Right wing of the German offensive.


Wadham and Charlton also returned safely (Charlton eventually ending life as an Air Commodore with a distinctly er... interesting lifestyle).[/quote]

Pray do go on...
 
#24
1. Resigns as SASO Iraq over colonial policing policy (views bombing as inhuman).
2. Retires from RAF after career stalls because of (1)
3. Becomes author of series of books on air power, scenarios contained therein becoming increasingly barking over time (include such gems as an attack on the Hendon air days by a combined German/Polish force as the dastardly Poles and Germans attempt to extend their territory...).
4. Sets up home with 'an aesthetically pleasing young gentleman' 8O
5. Becomes author of adventure fiction for young boys

His autobiography 'Charlton' reads as if it was written while he was trying out an interesting new brand of 'tobacco', relegating his First World War service (ending as GOC V Brigade RAF, as you probably know) to three lines.

By the late 1930s, he'd started dabbling with a mixture of socialism and preventing cruelty to animals.

See - http://www.rafweb.org/Biographies/Charlton.htm
 
#25
Archimedes said:
1. Resigns as SASO Iraq over colonial policing policy (views bombing as inhuman).
2. Retires from RAF after career stalls because of (1)
3. Becomes author of series of books on air power, scenarios contained therein becoming increasingly barking over time (include such gems as an attack on the Hendon air days by a combined German/Polish force as the dastardly Poles and Germans attempt to extend their territory...).
4. Sets up home with 'an aesthetically pleasing young gentleman' 8O
5. Becomes author of adventure fiction for young boys

His autobiography 'Charlton' reads as if it was written while he was trying out an interesting new brand of 'tobacco', relegating his First World War service (ending as GOC V Brigade RAF, as you probably know) to three lines.

By the late 1930s, he'd started dabbling with a mixture of socialism and preventing cruelty to animals.

See - http://www.rafweb.org/Biographies/Charlton.htm
Good god, playing with little boys? And socialism and animal welfare? He sounds like a Nazi for heaven's sake. socialism and buggery would be quite acceptable for a British gentleman but leave the animals to the Welsh and Greeks!
 
#26
The high profile of Dease's death by the bridge and his subsequent VC obviously recommend themselves to history, where his equally brave but less distinguished comrades do not!

I take it you are a fusiler yourself Pteranodon?
 
#27
Cuddles said:
The high profile of Dease's death by the bridge and his subsequent VC obviously recommend themselves to history, where his equally brave but less distinguished comrades do not!

I take it you are a fusiler yourself Pteranodon?
I used to be a Gunner, but know about this becasue I am have recently taken a party around Mons and bought the detailed Battleground Europe history of Mons by Horsfell and Cave.

They also argue that the Watefall and Bayley were shot down by German rifle fire, citing Walter Bloem as a witness.

The interesting fact about Mons is that the vast majority of soldiers in some battalions weren't long service regulars finely drilled on the ranges. Most seem to have been Regular Reservists recalled to the colours from civvy street. 4/RF, Dease's unit, had 735 Reservists out of an establishment of 977 and most other units in 5th Div had over 500 per battalion.
 
#28
Pteranadon said:
Re de Burgh. He is an early death in the Great War compared to the majority killed in 1916-18. He may also be one of the first Indian Army war dead! He seems to have died at the Battle of the Aisne. I can't find any particular mention of the 5th Lancers on that day.
The 5th (Royal Irish) Lancers were there as part of the 3rd Cavalry Brigade of the 2nd Cavalry Division, though they don't seem to have taken a major part. See link:- http://www.1914-1918.net/CAVALRY/2cavdiv.htm
 
#30
If you want more information about Waterfall and the early RFC flights visit the RAF Musuem at Hendon. I had a tour there on Suinday morning.

I saw...

The casualty report for Waterfall.

The diary kept by Philip de la Ferte Joubert covering those flights -and the loggged reports and the sketch map they made fo0r their flight on 25 August showign German and BEF troop movements. They let me pick these up and look through them.

I also was able to pick up a flattened bullet that had struck the understiufe of Joubert'sseat and the bullet that entered the petrol tank - one of them had to stop the leak with a finger on the flight back.

Seriously good collection of documents and artifacts. Call the archive to visit. Its free.
 

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