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1984 vs Brave New World - Which are we closest to?

I'd say that as people far more intelligent than us are still arguing as to whether or not any of us even have free will, let alone control and freedom of our own societies, then it will always ebb and flow between many states and types of 'control'.

It's been one of the reasons why I'm an advocate for an understanding and return to Classical Liberalism and how it interprets property of oneself as a fundamental.

Then again, I think it'll all be short lived anyway as AI will render us subjects of one of two scenarios.

The Matrix or The Culture.
 

Biggish

Clanker
I'd say that as people far more intelligent than us are still arguing as to whether or not any of us even have free will, let alone control and freedom of our own societies, then it will always ebb and flow between many states and types of 'control'.

It's been one of the reasons why I'm an advocate for an understanding and return to Classical Liberalism and how it interprets property of oneself as a fundamental.

Then again, I think it'll all be short lived anyway as AI will render us subjects of one of two scenarios.

The Matrix or The Culture.
We’ve never had control of our own societies, they are decided by proxy.
Artificial intelligence is like artificial grass. It looks like it, but you can tell the difference.
 
I'd say that as people far more intelligent than us are still arguing as to whether or not any of us even have free will, let alone control and freedom of our own societies, then it will always ebb and flow between many states and types of 'control'.

It's been one of the reasons why I'm an advocate for an understanding and return to Classical Liberalism and how it interprets property of oneself as a fundamental.

Then again, I think it'll all be short lived anyway as AI will render us subjects of one of two scenarios.

The Matrix or The Culture.
In some ways, both books are very prescient and science fiction has created the ideas of a Digital Ruling Inner Party living a Brave new world lifestyle, an outer party of managers who are constantly monitored in the style of 1984 and the winners join the inner and the losers join the masses slaving at the bottom and drugged to the eyeballs (see blakes 7).
 

Bee Companeeee

Old-Salt
I think that during lockdown, we're closer to 'The Machine Stops'.
We read that book when I was at school and it left a deep impression on me, particularly when you look around today and see how helpless so many people are now when it comes to self reliance. How often do you hear 'I've been down the council but they wont do nothing's. My answer well sort it out yourself. The more recent version being inane posts on facebook for the most simple things such as I kid you not 'any recommendations for where I can get a puncture on my bike fixed'.

Another book/ short story we studied was the Destructors by Graeme Green. It was about a group of kids who for absolutely no reason destroyed a beautiful old house that had survived the Blitz. Over the course of a weekend they reduced it to a pile of rubble. Again an author predicting in the future how society would use its energies to destroy itself rather than to improve.
 

happyuk

War Hero
Are we willingly walking into a world where the ruling classes control everything and we are happy to let them?


It sure does look that way. Apparently it's all about "Build back better"

As this Twitter wag says it's a big club and we ain't in it.


Other questions we might ask the ruling classes would be
  • How come the US election was stolen?
  • How did this come to pass? How did things ever reach this extraordinary point in a "free" country?
  • How come the Supreme Court did nothing at all about the multiple, documented injustices?
  • What happened to Mike Pence, Mitch McConnell and other so-called Republicans?
  • What happened to the mainstream media? And critical thinking? And honesty? And whatever anyone might think real patriotism might be?
  • What happened to so much of tech-giant controlled social media, such that legitimate questions, posed in perfectly civil ways, were censored, and accounts removed, including the President himself?
  • And even before all that, what was gradually, strategically, carefully, quietly taking place, in America and all over the world, such that Trump's removal from office by fair means or foul, was held to be a critical-path factor that absolutely had to happen?
 
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You called............

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It sure does look that way. Apparently it's all about "Build back better"

As this Twitter wag says it's a big club and we ain't in it.


Other questions we might ask the ruling classes would be
  • How come the US election was stolen?
  • How did this come to pass? How did things ever reach this extraordinary point in a "free" country?
  • How come the Supreme Court did nothing at all about the multiple, documented injustices?
  • What happened to Mike Pence, Mitch McConnell and other so-called Republicans?
  • What happened to the mainstream media? And critical thinking? And honesty? And whatever anyone might think real patriotism might be?
  • What happened to so much of tech-giant controlled social media, such that legitimate questions, posed in perfectly civil ways, were censored, and accounts removed, including the President himself?
  • And even before all that, what was gradually, strategically, carefully, quietly taking place, in America and all over the world, such that Trump's removal from office by fair means or foul, was held to be a critical-path factor that absolutely had to happen?
Its rather like the metaphor of a Lifeboat, with a capacity insufficient to take everybody on board and as such, the goal is to compartmentalise the danger, whilst an orderly exit can be arranged.

So the argument goes we live in a global world and the changes are such, that the competition and tension has ratched up to levels that used to lead to war. So to keep the peace and maintain control, we needed to make sacrifices to lift the world out of poverty and Western Democracy has been unwilling to level with the people about those sacrifices and within that contradiction you had mad people like Trump scaring the system, that control is about to be lost.

1984 had a perpetual low level conflict to channel aggression away from revolution and the BNWorld used drugs. I would be surprised if we didn't have legal drugs within a few years and a return to the forever wars of the middle east.
 

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