1962 GSM Clasps

haloman

Old-Salt
I read that there were 13 clasps awarded for the 1962 GSM including one for Vietnam which, I believe, was only awarded to the Aussies who were there.
I know a few guys who have 5 clasps on their 1962 GSM's but I don't know of anyone with more than that. Is there anybody out there who knows of anyone with more than 5 clasps for this medal?

Thanks
 

_Chimurenga_

LE
Gallery Guru
According to wikipædia, one individual was awarded six clasps, but they don't mentioned who or which ones.
 

haloman

Old-Salt
Yes, you could be right about the Kiwi's but I think I read somewhere that it only went to the Aussie SAS but I may be wrong.
 

haloman

Old-Salt
Chimurenga. Yes I've heard rumours that there is someone who has 6 clasps but none of the medal collectors or dealers that I know can put a name to him or her, or what the clasps are.
 

haloman

Old-Salt
Probably not but I was just being politically correct. There are people out there who insist on being 'offended'. In fact they spend their lives wanting to be offended by just about anything.
 

_Chimurenga_

LE
Gallery Guru
I vaguely recall reading somewhere (on ARRSE maybe?) that the guy with six clasps to his GSM was a loadmaster on a Chinook.
 
I don’t think that a six bar 62 GSM exists. I’ll play devils advocate for this position in a minute, but first I will address the issue of whether any Kiwi’s qualified for the Vietnam clasp raised earlier in the thread.


No they didn’t.


A little bit is known about the early Australian Training Team Vietnam who were the recipients of the clasp from 1962 onwards, but practically nothing is known about the first Kiwi contribution. NEWZAD was a small detachment of Kiwi engineers sent to Thu Dau Mot in June 1964.


http://www.vietnamwar.govt.nz/photo/newzad-engineers-vietnam


The three way conversation between London, Canberra and Wellington finally decided in 1968 how the ANZAC’s would be accommodated by way of Imperial campaign awards. The commitment of NEWZAD was determined as the cut of date between the award of the Vietnam clasp and the award of the new ANZAC only, Vietnam Medal.


Lot’s of Kiwi’s eventually served in the Australian Army in Vietnam and quite a few in AATTV, but none were in the original few tranches of AATTV sent to Vietnam between 1962 and 1964 who qualified for the Vietnam clasp.


It is not accurate to assume that all the recipients of the Vietnam clasp were SAS. Some were. Most of those assigned to USSF A Teams however were not. In fact a large proportion were not even Infantry Corps. Off the top of my head I think Rae Simpson VC was the only SAS Company member who qualified for the clasp and was posted to an A Team. The majority of SAS members who received the clasp were instructors at the Ranger Training Centre in Duc My.


While 3 clasp 1962 GSM’s are relatively unusual they are still highly prized by collectors. 4 Clasp examples are exceptionally rare. Few, very few 5 clasp medals are known of and some have been sold at auction. There has never been an authentic 6 clasp offered to the market, although I am aware of at least one that lacked any sort of provenance.


If such a beast existed and it’s bona fides established, it would be worth a small fortune. Most multi clasp GSM’s were awarded in the first ten tears 1962 to 1972, multi clasp (Three or more) from the Argyll and Sutherland Highlander’s, 42Cdo, The RAF Regiment and 4RTR are pretty common.That is to be expected because in the late sixties these units were very busy shuttling the Indian Ocean extinguishing post colonial fires. From 1972 to 1982 Northern Ireland was the only clasp on offer until another flurry of activity towards the end. If a six clasp example existed I would expect it to have been earned in the period 1962 to 1972. Forty two years have passed since then and not one has seen the light of day. I find that proof enough that there isn’t one.


I’m skeptical too that a Chinook loadmaster could have qualified for one in the last flurry. I’m pretty good on the period 1945 to 1975 but get a bit shaky after that so there is a good chance I might be wrong, but…..


The UK introduced the HC2 in 1980.


Since 1980 the clasps that have been awarded are:


Northern Ireland - Chinooks most likely


Lebanon- I don’t know. Doubtful


Mine Clearance Suez Canal- I don’t know, I thought this was a Navy only exercise. Chinooks doubtful.


Gulf - Again I thought this was purely a Naval affair. Chinooks unlikely to be involved.


Kuwait - Definitely.


North Iraq and Southern Turkey- No idea, probably.


Air Operations Iraq- Most likely Chinooks.


So there were only 7 opportunities to be awarded a campaign clasp from 1980 when the Chinook was introduced to the present. I think the likelihood of any serviceman qualifying for 6 out of the 7 to be exceptionally slim. I’ll be delighted to be wrong and delighted to learn more about these latter campaigns and the units involved in them.


Cheers


Mick
 
Quite so. I think they should count. But strictly the original enquiry was six to the '62.

What unit or units just as a matter of interest.
 

haloman

Old-Salt
chippymick, many thanks for your analysis. Here in Hereford there are probably about ten guys with 5 clasp 62 GSM's amongst some remarkable medal groups. For your interest attached piccie is my own group. Borneo, Radfan, South Arabia, Dhofar and NI. Note absence of LSGC! I was a naughty boy on occasion.
Thanks
 

Attachments

Appreciated 4OC.

I think that it reinforces my theory, and it is only a theory, that if a 'sixer' exists than it more likely would be:

a) awarded in the first decade instituted.

b) Most likely to be from either Argyll and Sutherland Highlander’s, 42Cdo, The RAF Regiment and 4RTR.

Of course my conjecture as to part a) could be possibly shot down because I know so little about the last ten years. I am interested in knowing the answer to my wild arse speculation as to how a 'sixer' might be possible from NI to Iraq Air Ops.

Cheers

Mick
 
chippymick, many thanks for your analysis. Here in Hereford there are probably about ten guys with 5 clasp 62 GSM's amongst some remarkable medal groups. For your interest attached piccie is my own group. Borneo, Radfan, South Arabia, Dhofar and NI. Note absence of LSGC! I was a naughty boy on occasion.
Thanks
Very impressive Haloman. Rare as rockinghorse poo.

Again it reinforces my theory as to the period most likely to throw up a 6 clasp GSM . Can I ask if you were, Argyll and Sutherland Highlander’s, 42Cdo, The RAF Regiment or 4RTR or is the reference to Hereford a huge hint or where you have retired to?

A two clasp GSM in Australia is an almost certain indicator that you were SAS. If it is South Vietnam and Borneo you can almost guarantee it.

Either way, after nearly 50 years, if you know 10 fellows with 5 and none with 6 I think that might be because there isn't anyone. Logic and human nature suggests you would have heard about him by now.

Cheers

Mick
 

haloman

Old-Salt
Yes chippymick, I served 29 years of which 25 were here in Hereford and a lot of my colleagues saw very similar service to me so they would have the same clasps. Some had Malay Peninsular instead of Radfan or Borneo. I think that I qualify for the Malay Peninsular too. The paperwork is in so watch this space!
Dhofar was in the 70's and we had RAF Wessex in support to build the Hornbeam Line so maybe the Chinook loadie was with a Wessex squadron then.
 
Good luck with the Peninsular tilt Haloman.

I take your point re: Dhofar in 1976, all things are possible, but for mine it is still a stretch.

I'd value your opinion on how valid you think of my supposition that; "either way, after nearly 50 years, if you know 10 fellows with 5 and none with 6 I think that might be because there isn't anyone. Logic and human nature suggests you would have heard about him by now."

Thanks very much for sharing your story.

Best regards

Mick.
 

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