16 Signal Regiment and the IS Trade

#1
OK, does anyone know what the score with promotion for the old IS Engineers, now amalgamated into the CSEng trade is?

I was told that the IS Signallers should have all come off the board last year to LCpl to bring them in-line with the new class 3's who would get LCpl straight from Blanford, this happened in mostly every regiment I know people at, except 16 Signal Regiment. At 7 Signal Regiment (who shares the same camp with 16) all the IS came off. How come not at 16? How can you have an ISEng straight from his class 3, no experience of a working unit and on the kit outrank and be in-charge of someone who has been at the regiment for 2 years, knows the kit inside out and has been on at least one operational tour?! It does not make sense.

I can tell you now that, in 16 Signal Regiment, all the IS who were Signallers at the time of last years board, minus 3, did not come off. These people have done at least one operational tour with the regiment, and I know of at least 1 who has done 2 tours, yet are now outranked and out-paid by people of the same trade with considerably less trade and army knowledge. This cannot be fair, they are also getting skipped over for some trade/army courses because they are only available to LCpl’s.

What has happened here? Have these people been career fouled? Has the regiment had failing at the top? Whatever, all I know is this is deeply, deeply unfair on those who it has affected, and moral in the IS roster has bottomed.

And before you say, it has not affected me. I’m not even in the same trade group.
 
#2
The fact that they have done an OP Tour is neither here nor there, perhaps the CoC have decided that they are not ready to be an NCO?

I believe that you have to reach certain criteria to leave Blanford as a LCpl, however would be happy to be corrected on this.
 
#3
Yes you do have to fit a certain criteria, officially, but its just the same as the old Tech trade, you would get LCpl 95% of the time. The only reason you wouldn't get it is if you were a complete **** up.

Please look past the tour thing, i am using this as an example of their experience and in comparison to the complete lack of experience for the new JNCO class 3's.
 
#4
You may find that all of the IS Ops who became LCpl CS Eng (I) had a recommendation for promotion. Regardless of how battle hardend and geeky the Siggies are, no recommendation = no stripe.

The new batch coming out of Blandford also have to receive this recommendation and, of course, pass their JNCO Cse.
 
#5
The fact of the matter is, people lower in rank but higher in experience and trade knowledge is evident throughout all trades, why should they be any different?

We would then have people saying, 'I'm more experienced than him promote me'. Trade knowledge alone doesn't qualify you for promotion.
 
#6
Yes this is defiantly the case, however why were all the other Signaller IS throughout the army (bar the odd few) recommended, and the ones at 16 weren't? You cannot tell me it is coincidence.

If you look at the Sig-LCpl board results on Armynet there wasn't even a board that sat for the IS trade. Why's that?
 
#7
heidtheba said:
The fact of the matter is, people lower in rank but higher in experience and trade knowledge is evident throughout all trades, why should they be any different?

We would then have people saying, 'I'm more experienced than him promote me'. Trade knowledge alone doesn't qualify you for promotion.
You guys are missing the point. The debate isn't about promotability, its about why weren't these people promoted when the rest of the trade army wide were?

These people should have been promoted to bring them in-line with the new trade who are all LCpl. And its totally unfair no matter how you look at it that there are missing out and loosing years of their career.
 
#8
peed_off_is said:
heidtheba said:
The fact of the matter is, people lower in rank but higher in experience and trade knowledge is evident throughout all trades, why should they be any different?

We would then have people saying, 'I'm more experienced than him promote me'. Trade knowledge alone doesn't qualify you for promotion.
You guys are missing the point. The debate isn't about promotability, its about why weren't these people promoted when the rest of the trade army wide were?

These people should have been promoted to bring them in-line with the new trade who are all LCpl. And its totally unfair no matter how you look at it that there are missing out and loosing years of their career.
Maybe a question for the CoC or RCMO?
 
#9
There are one or two IS about who haven´t promoted for one reason or anther.

As mentioned above. This is a matter for those who are affected to ask questions of the CoC and/or RCMO. But youaren´t one of those affected are you?

There is no board for the IS becase there is no Sig LCpl board for CS Engr. That said, there is a mechanism for promotion so don´t worry they aren´t being left behind....

do you think all those naughty techs who didn´t get promoted or were busted just did their 22 as a Sigg`?
 
#10
chocolate_frog said:
There are one or two IS about who haven´t promoted for one reason or anther.
Yes, agreed, but not 80% of a regiments IS manning. One Regiment!

chocolate_frog said:
There is no board for the IS becase there is no Sig LCpl board for CS Engr. That said, there is a mechanism for promotion so don´t worry they aren´t being left behind....

do you think all those naughty techs who didn´t get promoted or were busted just did their 22 as a Sigg`?
The issue can't be ignored with "oh well they'll catch up" They have lost a year of there career.

Im not trying to argue with you guys but im not getting anything concrete here that can justify this issue.
 
#11
I appreciate they have lost a year, my comment was regarding your belief there was no Board for the Sig-LCpl.

You said that three WERE promoted, and that 15 +/- were not. I hardly think a Regiment will forget all about some of their troops. If three were promoted then the system is known and works. Those who didn´t come off mustn´t be considered ready yet.

Don´t be confused by the Promotion of the IS Engrs. It is not a blanket promotion to anybody in that trade. They still have to prove themselves worthy of the Rank.

If it makes you feel anybetter 100% of my units IS Siggies haven´t been promoted... Because she can´t drag her arrse around 1.5 miles in less than 13 minutes.
 
#12
The IS promotion system is that if you get a recommendation you'll get promoted (Sig-LCpl)

Now every other Signals Regiment/Sqn/Tp recommends all there IS Siggies (except the odd exceptional **** up) for promotion, every regiment except 16 Sigs? Why have 16 not done this?

Every other regiment has brought their IS in line with the new JNCO CSEng and promoted their IS (again bar the odd exceptional **** up), except 16.
 
#13
The only reason I can think of why they haven't been promoted is, the Regimental Orbat has not been updated for the new trade.

This will probably mean that the posts are not rank ranged and so you need x Siggies, x LCpls, etc,etc.

A long shot I know, but just maybe...........
 
#14
peed_off_is said:
The IS promotion system is that if you get a recommendation you'll get promoted (Sig-LCpl)

Now every other Signals Regiment/Sqn/Tp recommends all there IS Siggies (except the odd exceptional * up) for promotion, every regiment except 16 Sigs? Why have 16 not done this?

Every other regiment has brought their IS in line with the new JNCO CSEng and promoted their IS (again bar the odd exceptional * up), except 16.
Tomorrow morning speak to the CoC, and phone the RCMO.
 
#15
chocolate_frog said:
peed_off_is said:
The IS promotion system is that if you get a recommendation you'll get promoted (Sig-LCpl)

Now every other Signals Regiment/Sqn/Tp recommends all there IS Siggies (except the odd exceptional * up) for promotion, every regiment except 16 Sigs? Why have 16 not done this?

Every other regiment has brought their IS in line with the new JNCO CSEng and promoted their IS (again bar the odd exceptional * up), except 16.
Tomorrow morning speak to the CoC, and phone the RCMO.
Hehe, you don't believe me when i say it doesn't affect me do you? Truthfully it doesn't. But it affects my mates.

I know one of them has been to the RCMO's and has been told in no uncertain terms there's nothing he can do and he will get promoted next year. This is not good enough. Also his immediate CoC are trying to sweep a mistake they have made regarding this persons career/promotion under the carpet.

Sometimes the CoC are to blame, and the RCMO doesn't want to rock the boat...
 
#16
in your first post, you said and i quote "i was told"

find out if this is factual, phone glasgow, phone signals rhq in blandford, who cares who you ask but find out if its true, if it was only rumour and the other promotions corps wide are by coincidence tell your mates to dry their eyes.

however if it is the case then you can crack on and "do the whole f*cking village"

but as i said your whole case depends on if it is factually correct that as a corps a policy was inroduced to bring all IS geeks in line with the crow leaving blandford, find that out and you will know where you stand. :D
 
#17
Peed off,

As said before, your best bet would be to get your 'mates' to speak to the CoC, maybe the FofS(IS) and see if he/she can make some calls and shed some light. Do you know for definate that the rest of the corps IS siggies have come off the board? Have you spoke to them all?

You say they've spoke to their RCMO. If he says they're coming off the board next year, then I guess that's the way it goes.

Have your 16 Sigs IS mates had recommendations for promotion on their last CR's?

I myself am IS, (or CSEng?). I wasn't that aware that all IS siggies were getting their lance jack to get them inline with Class 3's. I wasn't even aware that class 3 CS Engineers were getting their 1st stripe after training! I'm a bit out the loop where I work. :?
 
#18
Promotion to LCpl for the IS Engr Signallers was dependent upon a recommendation for promotion at last years SJAR. The aim was to bring the IS Engr trade into parity with the CS Engr trade post amalgamation - with all CS Engr's leaving trade at CL3 as LCpl.

Now, you have beef with IS Engr Signallers not reaping the benefit of this. There can be a few reasons why this is:

1. The were not recommended for promotion. Show stopper.
2. Their annual reports were not before the board. Speak to the RCMO.
3. There is a reason why they are banned from promotion (discipline, warning order - could be loads of things).
4. The bloke wasnt due a report due to posting, advanced CR or something similar so he has fallen through a gap.
5. The blokes a bit of a cnut - refer to point one.

Suffice to say - the whole thing was handled quite well, very publically, with ample notification Corps wide.

Please feel free to pm me you phone number. I've got the Corps correspondence on the matter on file and i'll chat you through it.

Boney

Edited because i thought of another valid reason that didnt involve sarcasm
 
#19
Thanks for the replies guys, i have found a document which deals with this issue.

SOinC(A)/COS/30/9/12 - Communication Systems Engineer Implementation: Signaller Information System Engineers Promotion To Lance Corporal.

Of particular note is Annex B

I will quote a little:

"Throughout this process standard MS principles and procedures should apply to report writing in units, and will be applied to the boarding mechanism at the APC. As is current procedure with the SET, if a soldier is not of the quality to be promoted then the CoC should not recommend that idividual. It should be noted however, that the corps must establish parity across the new competence as soon as possible and a non-recommendation for promotion should be the exception rather than the rule"

Seems 16 Signal Regiment got it the wrong way around. Promoting an ISEngr was the exception and not promoting them was the rule.
 
#20
FFS.

I am sure if you work hard you will get a recommendation next year.

How do you know 16 got it the wrong way round? Be honest.... do you and your mates truely deserve your first tape?

What you quote is not a licence to give any spunker their tape. You still have to prove you are worthy of it.
 

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