14 week CIC OFFICIAL

[SmithsRail]

Well it's official that it's going to be a 14 week basic CIC with 2 months pre-deployment training.

I got a phone call earlier asking if "I'd like to complete an 'over the phone questionnaire'".

They asked me a load of questions about why I want to join the Army, and did I have my starting dates for the CIC, and what I thought of the Iraq/Afghanistan conflicts etc.

And then came questions about my fitness etc, and then they asked what I thought about the idea of training being cut in half, bla bla bla.

And then came: "Would you like us to put your name forward for the intensive but shorter basic training?"

 

[Boxy]

And become badged TA! for a short term contract, with the option to sign onas a Regular, stay in the TA or bin it after you tour. Or so I'm led to believe.

 

[chocolate_frog]

I got a phone call earlier asking if "I'd like to complete an 'over the phone questionnaire'".

Thought you were about to say "over the phone training"

 

[gwibo]

smithsrail have you got a date yet when your meant to be starting your CIC? date ive been told should be march 23rd but im yet to receive official letter .

 

[Werewolf]

I got a phone call earlier asking if "I'd like to complete an 'over the phone questionnaire'".

Thought you were about to say "over the phone training"

OPSEC, old girl! We don't start that until 2009!

 

[SmithsRail]

smithsrail have you got a date yet when your meant to be starting your CIC? date ive been told should be march 23rd but im yet to receive official letter .

yup I start on Febuary 24th, I'm doing the 26 week CIC though. I told the young lady that asked me if I wanted to do the "shorter more intense Combat Infantryman's Course" to go and stick it in politer terms.

I honesntly do not understand who would feel safe in combat with new recruits fresh out of a 14 week CIC and 2 month's pre-deployment training :/

 

[Chris_2oo6]

smithsrail have you got a date yet when your meant to be starting your CIC? date ive been told should be march 23rd but im yet to receive official letter .

yup I start on Febuary 24th, I'm doing the 26 week CIC though. I told the young lady that asked me if I wanted to do the "shorter more intense Combat Infantryman's Course" to go and stick it in politer terms.

I honesntly do not understand who would feel safe in combat with new recruits fresh out of a 14 week CIC and 2 month's pre-deployment training :/

14 week CIC + 8 weeks optag = 22 weeks right

doesent sound so bad considering my CIC was 24 weeks with only 4 days optag pre deployment trg.

 

[5.56mm]

So does that mean after going to Bassingbourne/AFC, the CIC would be like 7 weeks long?

 

[GwaiLo]

14 week CIC + 8 weeks optag = 22 weeks right

doesent sound so bad considering my CIC was 24 weeks with only 4 days optag pre deployment trg.

Put like that it doesn't sound so bad.

But most don't deploy straight away, they have time to learn more in the battalion before pre deployment training and doing a tour. So currently a small number deploy with just 24 weeks experience, but this new regime suggest that a large number will deploy with just 22 weeks experience in future.

That is the worry, its a numbers game and its hard to tell how much it may dilute the typical level of skill and experience.

 

[littlenickoutthere]

5.56 in answer to your question from what ive read the 14 week CIC is only available to over 18s as you gotta be over 18 to go on tour. Pretty useless them rushing you through training so you can head off to afghan if your not old enough to go at the end of it

 

[Mr.Brown]

Hmm, I suppose I won't have to worry since I'm not a British National or Resident, so I can't join the TA, therefor I'd imagine I can't be badged as a member of the TA either, correct?

All academic until I pass ADSC anyway...

 

[Bad_Crow]

This is an excellent Idea for recruiting young TA soldiers but the regular Bn's should be left alone.

Think about it. 19 Year old lad wanting to join the TA to do a tour and then go back to his civvy stuff. Its spot on and his training will be more intensive and I firmly believeit would produce better drive away today troops for ops.

However those intending to stay in th REGULAR army should continue doing the full hit. Its a must. This idea is purely a numbers game in order to save time and money in the manning on Battalions!

If you were an up and coming Gang member in a chavvy area would you consider it???

 

[Baz44]

Yet another way of the bean counters getting a better return on their investment - more in experienced cannon fodder filling the gaps rather than trained soldiers ready for Ops. Highest number of casulaties on ops are the newer guys with least experience learning by on the job experiences - a tough learning curve I should say! When will the accountants learn? Produce right quality with the right sort of training and then work damn hard on retention! Its the only true solution to manning issues of today.

Last I heard was targeted recruiting for the Infantry of the younger generation (college types take a gap year out on Ops!) For specific Ops 18 months prior to deployment with the option to train do recruit training with the TA and then do pre deployment training with deploying unit. All barking if you ask me!

Cheers

 

[Wessex_Man]

14 + 8 weeks seems reasonable to me - providing it's conducted with the requisite intensity. Under present circumstances it does make a certain amount of sense to focus more directly on operations actually on-going.

Let's not forget that for many years (certainly until the end of the Cold War) the standard basic Infantry training course was 18 weeks. The present CIC evolved largely as a consequence of the need to improve retention rates of recruits who -
1.) were generally less physically fit & mentally robust than earlier generations;
2.) more likely to opt out because there were plenty of other options available in a bouyant economy - most notably in the South East & in the traditional recruiting grounds of many Scottish regiments.

We now appear to be heading into a recession of sorts - this may do wonders for recruitment/ retention rates, and it may therefore be possible to intensify the training regime. If so, then 14 weeks should be adequate to cover the essentials.

 

[GwaiLo]

Let's not forget that for many years (certainly until the end of the Cold War) the standard basic Infantry training course was 18 weeks.

18 weeks to passing out parade , but that was followed by a further 2 weeks in the depot mainly dong NBC training I seem to recall..so it was actually 20 weeks.

Although it happened after my time I remember the argument for extending the 20 to 22 was entirely about physical fitness of entrants not being what it was in my day, and there is no reason to assume that has changed.

And remember that, whilst some soldiers might be posted to a battalion whilst it was on Ops, most soldiers would join a battalion and gain experience prior to doing Ops Training and then deploying. So typically going from new recruit to being on Ops would take way more than just geting through basic training. I don't know what the average time would have been but a guess of 12 months or more probably isn't unrealistic.

 

[iamalondoncrab]

Consider that some TA infantry soldiers do 8 weekends, a 2 week CIC, then 2 weeks at Chillwell (a total of 6 weeks, not including roughly 15-20 drill nights, each worth 0.25 days, added together would make 5 days, or 1 working week) before being 'ready' to deploy to Helmand or Basra.

Also consider that the Summer Challenge run by 51 Brigade is only 4 weeks long, and turns out supposedly fully trained infantrymen, who have been sent to Chilwell straight away, and then into the sandpit. The Midlands Challenge is 7 weeks long, and also turns out fully qualified TA infantrymen (Apologies if I have the two lengths mixed up, but my point still stands).

In light of the above infomation, and provided that the scheme is limited to the TA, I think this is a step forward, not a step back, and would more closely intergrate the TA and Regs, especially if the standards were raised to bring the TA soldiers to exactly the same standards as Regular recruits. If the course provided training geared specifically to Afghanistan/Iraq, the 14-week CIC could feasibly train TA soldiers to be the equal of Regs on tour - admittedly you'd lose some versatility for other tasks, but as a short-term engagement to overcome man-power shortages for our wars, I think it could be more successful then the current '8 weekends Phase 1 and a 2 week CIC' that we have. Perhaps we'd even be able to make 'One Army' a reality?

 

[Boxy]

.... Summer Challenge run by 51 Brigade is only 4 weeks long, and turns out supposedly fully trained infantrymen, who have been sent to Chilwell straight away, and then into the sandpit.

Long 4 weeks! 49 days long in fact, in fact thinking about it its actually 52 as the inf start a week before eveybody else, then, IIRC, after chilwell they went on the Optag with the 'host unit'

 

[GwaiLo]

provided that the scheme is limited to the TA, I think this is a step forward, not a step back

Provided that it is the case I'd agree with you. But does anyone know if that is the case?

 

[iamalondoncrab]

.... Summer Challenge run by 51 Brigade is only 4 weeks long, and turns out supposedly fully trained infantrymen, who have been sent to Chilwell straight away, and then into the sandpit.

Long 4 weeks! 49 days long in fact, in fact thinking about it its actually 52 as the inf start a week before eveybody else, then, IIRC, after chilwell they went on the Optag with the 'host unit'

Long 24 weeks for the regs!

 

[Boxy]

My comment was regarding the lenght of SC not CIC.