13 trillion of european toxic debt

#3
One could argue that the US has very cunningly bankrupt the entire western hemisphere to a similar degree that they did during, and post, WW2.
 
#4
I wouldn't be sorry to see the EU and the Euro destroy themselves because of this. It does make you wonder why decent economies like Germany and France wanted to get in bed with the PIGS in the first place ??????
 
#5
WalterWarry said:
I wouldn't be sorry to see the EU and the Euro destroy themselves because of this. It does make you wonder why decent economies like Germany and France wanted to get in bed with the PIGS in the first place ??????
probably to try and save the Euro
 
#6
The Euro is dead.

Why? Because there are more lower league Countries feeding at the trough than at any other time. The original Poor Four of the EEC are all now well and truly fecked. So much like the UK's growing dependance on Public Sector Jobs and the Benefit culture which will soon see us run out of Tax Payers that are paying taxes on money earnt from the private sector. The ECB will soon also be coughing up more than it's swallowing in.

You can only survive on over drafts for so long.
 
#7
What? You mean that the EU expanding far too fast, and allowing countries to join that couldn't support themselves, might turn out to be a mistake? :roll:
 
#8
WalterWarry said:
I wouldn't be sorry to see the EU and the Euro destroy themselves because of this. It does make you wonder why decent economies like Germany and France wanted to get in bed with the PIGS in the first place ??????
With a third of employees in France in the public sector,I would hardly call the economy of France decent.

Wait for some large strikes to hit France,as they surely will,and they will be further into the mire.
 
#9
Le_addeur_noir said:
WalterWarry said:
I wouldn't be sorry to see the EU and the Euro destroy themselves because of this. It does make you wonder why decent economies like Germany and France wanted to get in bed with the PIGS in the first place ??????
With a third of employees in France in the public sector,I would hardly call the economy of France decent.

Wait for some large strikes to hit France,as they surely will,and they will be further into the mire.
France isn't perfect by a long way but it still has a decent manufacturing base. Energy-nuclear reactors world leader, chemicals, shipbuilding, French car industry (not just screwdriver plants), Airbus, arnaments and cheese.
 
#10
heard_it_all_before said:
The Euro is dead.

Why? Because there are more lower league Countries feeding at the trough than at any other time. The original Poor Four of the EEC are all now well and truly fecked. So much like the UK's growing dependance on Public Sector Jobs and the Benefit culture which will soon see us run out of Tax Payers that are paying taxes on money earnt from the private sector. The ECB will soon also be coughing up more than it's swallowing in.

You can only survive on over drafts for so long.
What's cricket got to do with it?
 
#11
See That Britain is now considered in the same league as the PIGS, OR PIIGS.
Also I do remember saying some months ago that I did have concerns that they who Controlled Bush caused this to happen, knowing that no matter how bad it got the US will pull out sooner and be better placed to take advantage of the Financial Perfect Storm.
john
 
#12
When the German people wake up and realise that they are having to bail out the rest of Europe there will be trouble.

What should the ECB do, allow sovereign default, or hand over the dosh?

obviously they will do everything humanly possible to keep the integrity of the Eurozone intact, but this document raises the possibility that the money might run out.

No doubt in my mind that Trichet will have to slash ECB rates close to zero.
I said a couple of weeks ago that we have passed the high water mark for the Euro.

Pound should now head up to 1.25 and stand by for dollar/euro parity. Focus will now shift on to europe, pigs and all.
 
#13
jonwilly said:
See That Britain is now considered in the same league as the PIGS, OR PIIGS.
Also I do remember saying some months ago that I did have concerns that they who Controlled Bush caused this to happen, knowing that no matter how bad it got the US will pull out sooner and be better placed to take advantage of the Financial Perfect Storm.
john
The septics don't seem to have any qualms about insisting that their public money is spent on stuff manufactured in their country, thus kickstarting their economy. We and the EU, on the other hand, seem to want to give our public money to anyone and everyone, including the Chinese, Indians, Septics, etc., whilst keeping our own skilled workers unemployed.

Of course they will recover quicker!
 
#14
The cut on VAT was a farce, Broon now wants to increase the public sector, I do not think this will work, here is one to ponder, what if he raised the Super TAX bracket from 40k to 60 k, this IMO would actually increase spending as the majority of middle England is being taxed to death, the problem with Liabour it is all about the fast buck, and short sightedness.

The difference with Germany is 80 percent of their economy is manufacture based, who is going to buy what they produce when it costs so much? No wonder Merkel is sweating, I predict by mid july Germany and the euro will be crashing worse than Britain, but by then brown should have sold us completely to europe, so we will all be in the same boat!!
 
#15
Super Tax? That went out in the seventies, I think.

Personally I think he needs to put a 50% rate of tax on all earnings over £100,000 if he insists on keeping the current complex regime. Ideally he would replace the lot, allowances, bands, loopholes and all with

'How much income did you make?'
'Give us 20% of it'.

Full stop. End of story.

Reduces the size of HMRC at a stroke, frees up resources for chasing frauds, criminals, VAT cheats, etc., and makes everyone pay according to their means.

Suspect that's far to socialist for NEW Labour.
 
#16
Just to refine the 20% tax proposal. 20% on anything over about £18k (about the national minimum wage +20%), therby encouraging people to go out and earn money.

If anyone brings in more than that figure in combined household benefits then it too gets taxed.

Scrap the hidden taxes on industry - NIC, pension contributions etc.

Any benefit in kind "earned" - gets taxed at its true value. Share rights, bonuses, perks, company cars, work mobile, 2nd home allowances, John Lewis lists, entertainments, grace and favour houses, ministerial cars, business class travel, executive jets, junkets etc . Unless you can show it to be a legitimate expense in doing business then treat it for what it is - part of the remuneration package.
 
#17
Herrumph said:
Just to refine the 20% tax proposal. 20% on anything over about £18k (about the national minimum wage +20%), therby encouraging people to go out and earn money.

If anyone brings in more than that figure in combined household benefits then it too gets taxed.

Scrap the hidden taxes on industry - NIC, pension contributions etc.

Any benefit in kind "earned" - gets taxed at its true value. Share rights, bonuses, perks, company cars, work mobile, 2nd home allowances, John Lewis lists, entertainments, grace and favour houses, ministerial cars, business class travel, executive jets, junkets etc . Unless you can show it to be a legitimate expense in doing business then treat it for what it is - part of the remuneration package.
Absolutely. Forgot to mention that.

Also the prioritisation of spending.

First - tax money goes to defend the Realm,
second to support those who have contributed / are contributing, i.e. pension, NHS, etc.
third to support infrastructure - cheap and joined up railways and bus services on extended networks, with cars an expensive luxury,
fourth education - proper state education like we had in the sixties, but with the addition of the third tier that got 'forgotten' in the big experiment (i.e. Grammar, Technical and Secondary Modern), plus universities only for the Clever, but access open to all the clever (like it was in the sixties and seventies). Appropriate Punishment for truancy, not taking your free education seriously, and spoiling the opportunities of others. Proper funding of children with SEN, not the current pretence that educating them in mainstream is anything other than a money-saving exercise.
Fifth - proper immigration and border controls, enforced law of the land, keeping the Queen's Peace, and other old-fashioned values still held by the majority.
sixth - removal of all lobbyists, political advisers, researchers, policy wonks, paid consultants, PR advisers and other taxpayer funded scroungers who hang around the British, Scottish and Welsh Parliaments. In fact, I'd think seriously about making the Scots and Welsh pay for their own 'democracies'.
seventh - review of Social Services' role and responsibilities. Replacing lots of the £100,000 a year brigade with even more of the actual bods who do the work for a fifth of that money.
eighth - review of local authorities responsibilities, spending, services.

No doubt there's more, but that's a start.
 

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