13,000 homeless ex-soldiers

#2
I wouldn't read too much into these figures - mainly charitable posturing to attract statutory funding.

And why does the military have a 'duty of care' We're dealing with adults that should be more than capable of dealing with normal life issues
 
#4
Not if they have PTSD. Even "Andy McNab" has commented about that failure, comparing UK armed services mental health arrangements unfavourably with those for US Special Forces.
 
#5
Not if they have PTSD. Even "Andy McNab" has commented about that failure, comparing UK armed services mental health arrangements unfavourably with those for US Special Forces.
But 13K don't have PTSD. And by stating/implying so these charities are doing a grave disservice to the blokes that genuinely suffer from this debilitating condition.
 

jarrod248

LE
Gallery Guru
#6
Not if they have PTSD. Even "Andy McNab" has commented about that failure, comparing UK armed services mental health arrangements unfavourably with those for US Special Forces.
We aren’t in America and forgive me I’ve some homeless soldiers to shift off my garden. They think they can just camp anywhere while shouting some unrecognisable service number and shooting up.
 
#7
Approx 12998 of them will have joined up and been binned / PVR'd within the first week. Still classed as "ex" though - which is convenient for some.
 
#8
We're dealing with adults that should be more than capable of dealing with normal life issues
I was just going to laugh at that, however...
You sir, have blatantly never served. I wouldn't like to guess at the number of incompetent 'tards I served with who couldn't cope outside of the forces. One of the worst was actually prevented from going on leave until his SNLR paperwork was competed. Ever time he left camp he'd come back, late, with an epic tale of utter bullshit*. On leaving these people may well attend briefings on housing, job etc, but without someone to hold their hand they'll fail. Unlike the stereotypical benefits scrounger they haven't had the knowledge of the system to exploit it.


* one tale involved him being in an accident, hospitalised and the police needed him as a witness. Of course not a single shred of evidence could be found, which he claimed was a conspiracy blah blah . He was a particularly extreme case. (3 AFA early 90s sennelager)

This doesn't make it the forces problem or fault. Just that in some cases these people are just too daft to look after themselves. A few ex forces I've met who are on the street claim to be perfectly happy. One chap in Southampton was coping remarkably well. (Verified forces, verified genuinely homeless) and he had a plan for getting back into normal society, he was willing to accept the food and drinks we were dishing out, and helped us find a few more people who really needed assistance. This was before the SAS undercover on the streets story by the way.
I've not seen him about since so I assume his plan worked.
 
#9
Same with the prison stats - Dunno if still accurate but - the prison service only collated stats regarding employment for ex-services. Anyone who has spent a day beyond the main gate in basic qualifies as having served. Hence the disproportionate number of "ex-mil" behind bars. They should perhaps collate stats on ex ASDA employees or those who have cornflakes for breakfast in order to even things out??
 
#10
The trope of the distressed veteran cast aside by society is one which has occupied the popular imagination since the Napoleonic wars. However as this (2016) article in Standpoint Magazine suggests it is largely a myth perpetrated by those with a financial interest in getting the public to believe it is true.

The “culture of trauma” clearly exists, and there is no question that some people need help and genuinely suffer, but the epidemic of PTSD that is portrayed on our screens and in our newspapers is widely exaggerated, according to Hugh Milroy, who served 17 years in the RAF and fought in the Gulf War in 1991. He is now CEO of Veterans Aid, a charity looking after street homeless and socially excluded veterans. He has been involved with the charity for 20 years and has a PhD on homeless veterans.

Exaggeration about veterans in crisis from various sources is part of his daily life. One concern is the constant claim that there are thousands of veterans living on the streets. Some media outlets and charities have made wild claims over the years. “I’ve heard shocking numbers like 5,000 to 10,000 homeless heroes living on the streets,” says Milroy. “The internet doesn’t help, as people read these numbers and once said often enough it becomes a truth. Yet the government data indicates that at the moment on any given night, around 3,500 sleep rough in all of England, and around 2 per cent of those might have a military connection.”


That hasn’t stopped some charities and media outlets promoting sad stories that give an impression of “an ocean-going disaster” as Milroy says. He is dismayed watching people exploit the veteran community and public with what is virtual “sadness pornography”.

In fact the biggest danger to service personnel both serving and ex are problems that stem from the culture of alcohol abuse that exists within the forces.

Professor Nicola Fear, Director of the King’s Centre for Military Health Research at King’s College London, is concerned because so much focus is put on PTSD, which is not the most prevalent disorder among service personnel. She thinks it obscures the bigger picture, part of which is the high level of alcohol misuse. While young men drink, young men in the military drink more than their civilian counterparts, and that has nothing to do with combat.

Myth Of Stressed-Out Soldiers On The Street | Standpoint
 
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#11
How many of these ex military homeless, would have been homeless or struggling in mainstream society regardless of their service?

The ex soldiers I deal with tend to have an alcohol problem, which exacerbates their issues.

Very few of the homeless in the town I work in needed to be homeless, they have all invariably had accommodation and through ASB/criminality or failure to pay rent have lost it. None of the habitual street livers I know at the moment are ex mil.
 
#12
You don't see that many stories regarding Ex Military leaving and starting successful businesses, perusing carers in the NHS/Fire service/Police or even comedy (Wiltie anyone). Frankly stories like this make me wonder where Arrsers are when replying to threads.
As a never served mongtard who has in the past employed several ex members of HM forces I can say apart from the strict adherence to tea breaks with the exception of one they were all pretty normal and could tie their own shoe laces and got mortgages or rented places 'N' shit.
 
#14
Wrt PTSD - I have found civvy doctors appear VERY keen to steer things along that route. Last year I went to the doctors about a few things - loss of sleep being one of them. She was probably following accepted medical protocol but I felt she actually wanted me to play the PTSD card.

Can't describe it as PTSD but, now I'm a father, I tend to cross-reference certain things I've seen regarding children and find and them a little disturbing - whereas at the time...It didn't really bother me.

I've never met anybody under the age of 30 who has left the army who has *not* left because of some traumatic experience involving seeing a mate blown up next to him, or somesuch.

It must be unfashionable to now leave the services having done your time or' gave it a shot but wanted to settle down'.
 
#15
The “culture of trauma” clearly exists, and there is no question that some people need help and genuinely suffer, but the epidemic of PTSD that is portrayed on our screens and in our newspapers is widely exaggerated, according to Hugh Milroy, who served 17 years in the RAF and fought in the Gulf War in 1991. He is now CEO of Veterans Aid, a charity looking after street homeless and socially excluded veterans. He has been involved with the charity for 20 years and has a PhD on homeless veterans.

Exaggeration about veterans in crisis from various sources is part of his daily life. One concern is the constant claim that there are thousands of veterans living on the streets. Some media outlets and charities have made wild claims over the years. “I’ve heard shocking numbers like 5,000 to 10,000 homeless heroes living on the streets,” says Milroy. “The internet doesn’t help, as people read these numbers and once said often enough it becomes a truth. Yet the government data indicates that at the moment on any given night, around 3,500 sleep rough in all of England, and around 2 per cent of those might have a military connection.”


That hasn’t stopped some charities and media outlets promoting sad stories that give an impression of “an ocean-going disaster” as Milroy says. He is dismayed watching people exploit the veteran community and public with what is virtual “sadness pornography”.
I would take Hugh Milroy's words as gospel - to declare an interest, here, I know the man - but he has done considerable and detailed research into the issue - and his charity does exceptionally good work in the field.
 
#16
Sleeping on the street is increasing because of charities supplying these people with everything they need, hot food delivered to their tent, free clothing , bedding, tents.

It should be a criminal offence to sleep on public property, or beg for money.
 

jarrod248

LE
Gallery Guru
#17
Wrt PTSD - I have found civvy doctors appear VERY keen to steer things along that route. Last year I went to the doctors about a few things - loss of sleep being one of them. She was probably following accepted medical protocol but I felt she actually wanted me to play the PTSD card.

Can't describe it as PTSD but, now I'm a father, I tend to cross-reference certain things I've seen regarding children and find and them a little disturbing - whereas at the time...It didn't really bother me.

I've never met anybody under the age of 30 who has left the army who has *not* left because of some traumatic experience involving seeing a mate blown up next to him, or somesuch.

It must be unfashionable to now leave the services having done your time or' gave it a shot but wanted to settle down'.
NICE guidelines on PTSD suggest EMDR which you can access through the NHS and I think only one antidepressant which I believe is Seroxat.
 
#18
NICE guidelines on PTSD suggest EMDR which you can access through the NHS and I think only one antidepressant which I believe is Seroxat.
As it happens - it turned out,that time, there was 'a bit up' with my liver, sleep loss was just one of the symptoms.

I've discussed other stuff with you off forum too.
 
#19
There is a massive conflation of homeless and beggars, and the Venn diagram of the two groups doesn't have a big overlap, certainly in my experience of 25 years managing homeless services.
 
#20
Came out of the navy at Pompey Barracks. Given a rail warrant, handed in my ID and off I went. Oh, there were resettlement courses but I seemed to be unable to avail myself of them. But I was an adult and expected to get on with stuff. Within a week I had accommodation a job and a bird. Didn't even think I was owed anything. There's an ex-military chap sits at the cash machine near a Tesco and I once gave him a couple of bob when I found out he was RGJ. But he's been there for seven years I know of. He's on a Shagger coining in lots, but if that's his bag, who am I to comment? :cool:
 

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