12th of July Festival in NI

"Their" you mean me? I wear the flag of Britian on my right arm, do you?
If you see yourself as part of "their", so be it. A flag on uniform doesn't change that
 
My views on this have changed over the years. I used to think it was good craic when I was a kid, the bands, the spectacle etc. I remember standing in the Holy Land watching the parades with my grandfather who descended from a long line of LOL members looked on with much pride. I then in my early twenties realised it was an excuse for people to get pissed up. Then in the 1990's I started to become faintly embarrassed by it. Demands to walk up and down traditional routes where demographics has made the roads into republican area, were nothing but painful. The Drumcree stand off however really pushed me to the other side. As the staunch sons of protestant Ulster were stamping over the family grave there, after alienating the residents of Portadown, I came to the point of view that they were not the God fearing men following a fine tradition but a bunch of half witted bigoted cretins intent on upsetting as many people as possible.

Right you can't ban the thing as such, but for goodness sake keep it to an area of East Belfast, or Ballymena where it is going to be kept in check. The job of the parades commission.
Your views have changed partly because the Order has changed. The journalist David McKittrick (if I recall correctly) described the Orange Order of the 1990s as being Army being run by its NCOs as it had been abandoned by its Officers. Subsequently it has been captured by more loyalist and less unionist thinking as the make up has been more loyalist and less unionist. This is not to say that everything was hunky dory before but I think it has been subject to decisions following some very poor strategic thinking.

ETA Added bolded word as @Nornironman has indeed changed as well.
 
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Your views have changed because the Order has changed. The journalist David McKittrick (if I recall correctly) described the Orange Order of the 1990s as being Army being run by its NCOs as it had been abandoned by its Officers. Subsequently it has been captured by more loyalist and less unionist thinking as the make up has been more loyalist and less unionist. This is not to say that everything was hunky dory before but I think it has been subject to decisions following some very poor strategic thinking.
Loyalist: Loyal to Queen and Country

Unionist: Loyal to Queen and Country

Glad you made clear how one is bad and other good

Poor strategic thinking was UUP's cosying up to That Cnut Blair
 
Loyalist: Loyal to Queen and Country

Unionist: Loyal to Queen and Country

Glad you made clear how one is bad and other good

Poor strategic thinking was UUP's cosying up to That Cnut Blair
You are obviously free to disagree but I don't believe that you are unaware of the distinction I am making.
 

Wija

LE
So we should stop marching past the Cenotaph every year, because it upsets people.

It is done, and has been since 1795 when the Battle of the Diamond was won by the Peep o Day boys after the defenders wanted to have a planned battle.
The defenders were beaten, and the Orange Order was formed to ' defend the King and his heirs so long as he or they supported the reformed ascendancy'. This being non Roman Catholic.
 
So we should stop marching past the Cenotaph every year, because it upsets people.
I think if a crowd of old men in sashes with a band of mouth breathing billy-billy boys marched past the Cenotaph quite a lot of people would get upset.
 

Wija

LE
I think if a crowd of old men in sashes with a band of mouth breathing billy-billy boys marched past the Cenotaph quite a lot of people would get upset.
Why? Seems that BLM can do it, as can anyone else..so it seems.
And do you have a stutter? If so I recommend breathing, using your mouth. Or blow your nose.
 
Loyalist: Loyal to Queen and Country

Unionist: Loyal to Queen and Country

Glad you made clear how one is bad and other good

Poor strategic thinking was UUP's cosying up to That Cnut Blair
There is a quite simple translation

Loyalist - working class
Unionist - aspiring middle class and middle class.

At the lower end of Loyalist you have terrorist at the upper end and the lower half of Unionist you have those law abiding folk who tend to be the backbone of the Security Forces when required and the top two thirds of Unionist do not take any risk whatsoever but are quite happy for the others to do so while they make huge profits.
 
There is a quite simple translation

Loyalist - working class
Unionist - aspiring middle class and middle class.

At the lower end of Loyalist you have terrorist at the upper end and the lower half of Unionist you have those law abiding folk who tend to be the backbone of the Security Forces when required and the top two thirds of Unionist do not take any risk whatsoever but are quite happy for the others to do so while they make huge profits.
In your opinion.
 
I think if a crowd of old men in sashes with a band of mouth breathing billy-billy boys marched past the Cenotaph quite a lot of people would get upset.
Wasn't there a weegie flute band in one of the Brexit marches.
 
I think if a crowd of old men in sashes with a band of mouth breathing billy-billy boys marched past the Cenotaph quite a lot of people would get upset.
You do know that happens once a year, every year?

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To be honest no I didn’t. Looks quite dignified.


No band I hope.
There are bands there. The bands are part of the tradition.


When they do it properly, and when everyone else leaves them alone, the whole thing is quite dignified and is essentially harmless.
 

murff576

Old-Salt
There are bands there. The bands are part of the tradition.


When they do it properly, and when everyone else leaves them alone, the whole thing is quite dignified and is essentially harmless.
It would certainly look better if the bloody band could get in step ffs!
 
You are obviously free to disagree but I don't believe that you are unaware of the distinction I am making.
Unaware? Yes, the twisted distinction most likely left rabbit hole word salad
 

Nornironman

Old-Salt
There is a quite simple translation

Loyalist - working class
Unionist - aspiring middle class and middle class.

At the lower end of Loyalist you have terrorist at the upper end and the lower half of Unionist you have those law abiding folk who tend to be the backbone of the Security Forces when required and the top two thirds of Unionist do not take any risk whatsoever but are quite happy for the others to do so while they make huge profits.
20 years ago I'd have agreed with you. Loyalist was synonymous with the flute bands at best but more commonly with UVF / UDA / LVF whatever support. It was regularly used as polite and somewhat shorthand for zealous and unthinking sectarianism. Pre the GFA Unionism whilst the OUP / UUP still had life in it, was seen as the prescribed refuge of the middle classes.
However Unionism amongst the Nigels on the Malone road has taken a battering of late. The ascendancy of the DUP has been faintly embarrassing and it is far from cool certainly amongst my kids' generation to be embracing the illiberal views of the the DUPers. The thinking middle class nominally Unionist and relatively passive onlooker seem to now have a resigned acceptance that they are no longer represented at all in anywhere other than North Down. The Alliance party perhaps was a natural bolt hole for them but this is not doing the trick. I suspect there is a view emerging that they need to back a new horse in what will become a more green political landscape. I have no idea what the vehicle is... I know who I'd have loved to ask, Vincent Hanna. He'd have been able to see through the fog!
 

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