12th of July Festival in NI

estwist

Old-Salt
Looking for opinions,

The 12th of July festival in NI has been considered racist and has a long time been a day of sectarian violence. Should this festival be allowed to continue? Every year I worry about deaths of innocent people who don't wish to engage in resentful traditions. It's hardly done any good for peace progress.
 
Looking for opinions,

The 12th of July festival in NI has been considered racist and has a long time been a day of sectarian violence. Should this festival be allowed to continue? Every year I worry about deaths of innocent people who don't wish to engage in resentful traditions. It's hardly done any good for peace progress.
Meh it's only the Feniens who get upset.
 

estwist

Old-Salt
Meh it's only the Feniens who get upset.
Fenians, but I don't think so. I wouldn't consider myself a fenian as I don't carry on my ancestry hate of the British, (as the marchers on the 12th do against the Irish Republic) hence my service, and current service in the British Forces but I do have a problem with people burning flags of my nation etc, could you imagine if the Irish people burned British flags once a year, wouldn't be the same. Appreciate your opinion though bud.
 
Fenians, but I don't think so. I wouldn't consider myself a fenian as I don't carry on my ancestry hate of the British, (as the marchers on the 12th do against the Irish Republic) hence my service, and current service in the British Forces but I do have a problem with people burning flags of my nation etc, could you imagine if the Irish people burned British flags once a year, wouldn't be the same. Appreciate your opinion though bud.
I wouldnt really care what they did in the ROI.
 
That's ok, we have a beautiful island, here in Ireland, and if Stacker wishes to confine himself to the top right hand quarter, that's okay too.;)
 

sore knees

Old-Salt
Looking for opinions,

The 12th of July festival in NI has been considered racist and has a long time been a day of sectarian violence. Should this festival be allowed to continue? Every year I worry about deaths of innocent people who don't wish to engage in resentful traditions. It's hardly done any good for peace progress.
IMG-20200317-WA0001.jpg
 

Fang_Farrier

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Places like Larkhall are interesting this time of year
 
Looking for opinions,

The 12th of July festival in NI has been considered racist and has a long time been a day of sectarian violence. Should this festival be allowed to continue? Every year I worry about deaths of innocent people who don't wish to engage in resentful traditions. It's hardly done any good for peace progress.
Since when has believing in one interpretation of a book make you a different race to someone who believes a different interpretation? Identical twins could quite easily have different beliefs, one being a prod the other a left-footer for the sake of example. It doesn't make them different races.

Anyone who believes it is racist is a right cockwombling bell end of a spunktrumpet with the cognitive function of a goldfish.

You asked for opinions, that's my opinion.
 
With the twelth of July Orange Day celebrations imminant I did some reading into the history books, in order to better understand what it's all about. Here's some fun facts I discovered :

Fun fact #1 : William of Orange the 3rd married his 15 year old cousin Mary Stuart when he was 27 because she was heir to the English throne.

Fun fact #2 : the Catholic king James he deposed in England was his catholic uncle/ father in law.

Fun fact #3 : From his wife's death In 1694 to his own demise in 1702 he had no female companion yet several male associates. These relationships with male friends, and his apparent lack of mistresses, led William's enemies to suggest that he might prefer homosexual relationships. Some scholars suggest his saucy letters could add support to this claim.

Fun fact 4#: Due to a mistake in calculations, In 1752 the change to the Gregorian calendar necessitated a re-calculation of all historical anniversaries. The Battle of the Boyne was actually on 1st July. Additionally many people mix up the day of the Williamite Wars, the Battle of Aughrim which was fought on July 12th, 1691.

Fun fact #5, : It's not about protestant or catholic at all. William of Orange had the support of the Pope and there where catholics fighting on both sides, as were protestants. It was all about politics in the end - with a few supporters even merrily switching sides during the war. After the death of his wife William actually changed his religion to anglican, the denomination of his opponent James before he converted to catholicism in 1668. For most people It was actually about supporting an absolutist or a parliamentary monarchy.

Fun fact #6: The Battle Wasn't About Ireland at All. Ultimately the battle was about an Englishman an and a Dutchman slugging it out over the English crown on a foreign field. Irish issues were never really raised and Irish freedom wasn't even mentioned.

Fun Fact #7: It wasn't a battle about the Irish against the English, either. A majority of James' troops were Irish with the support of French troops. William's force was even more diverse, with Dutch, German, French Huguenot and even Danish soldiers marching for him as part of the Grand Alliance. In simplistic terms It was the Grand Alliance vs France.

Fun fact #8: The quasi masonic association of Orange Order lodges did not always celebrate the Battle Of The Boyne. It has only done so since its creation in 1795, some 105 years after the battle occurred.

Fun fact #9: Scholars state its highly unlikely he rode a white horse despite very emotional claims from your granda Jim.

Fun fact #10 : In March 1690, 4000 Grand Alliance troops arrived at Belfast to aid William, because they wanted William to get back to leading the war in Europe. At the same time, Louis 14th of France sent troops to aid James. He wanted to prolong the war in Ireland, so that William's attention would be diverted away from France for longer. Battle of the boyne was a proxy battle and a tactical distraction frrom the European one.

Final fact : The "glorious twelth" actually refers to the glorious revolution which refers to the November 1688 deposition and subsequent replacement of James 2nd by Mary Stuart and William of orange which is celibrated on the 11th July with lighting of bonfires. The true "glorious twelth" is the twelfth day of August, marking the start of the shooting season for red grouse .

So in summary the glorious twelth is the celibration of a dutchman who married his cousin, deposed his uncle/father in law and took the English crown . Who then went to Ireland supported by foreign troops from the grand alliance to thwart his uncles comeback supported by French troops. The battle of the boyne was a proxy battle fought on foreign soil as part of the nine years war.

And now I'm really confused what this 329 year old battle has to do with the somme, the ulster volunteer force, the IRA, the tricolour and Sinn Fein ‍♂️.
 

estwist

Old-Salt
Since when has believing in one interpretation of a book make you a different race to someone who believes a different interpretation? Identical twins could quite easily have different beliefs, one being a prod the other a left-footer for the sake of example. It doesn't make them different races.

Anyone who believes it is racist is a right cockwombling bell end of a spunktrumpet with the cognitive function of a goldfish.

You asked for opinions, that's my opinion.
The racism was more directed at the outfits that tend to be dawned there and the burning of a flag. Nothing to do with the relgious side mate,

Opinion much appreciated bud and a good way to look at it ( From an identical twin ) haha.
 
Looking for opinions,

The 12th of July festival in NI has been considered racist and has a long time been a day of sectarian violence. Should this festival be allowed to continue? Every year I worry about deaths of innocent people who don't wish to engage in resentful traditions. It's hardly done any good for peace progress.
Some people,who live in places where there isn't a march on the 12th, find it so upsetting that they have no choice but to pack themselves into busses and travel to places where they are happening to be offended by it there. Once they get there it apparently offends them so much that they have no choice but to riot about it.

could you imagine if the Irish people burned British flags once a year, wouldn't be the same.
Not much 'imagining' needed.

1594568056685.png
 
No love for the Irish then?
Why should there be a love for the Irish? They've been living off the perception that 'everybody loves the Irish' for decades and for a while they were popular around the world because of the Irish theme pubs. It was a cultivated image just in the same way as the Aussie sports bars was. It was fashionable, nothing else, and people bought into it because it was trendy. It's old hat now.

The truth is, if the Irish didn't speak English, and only stuck to Gaelic, they would just be considered a minor foreign oddity, speaking a language that nobody else around the world speaks. They'd have as much world-wide relevance as, say, someone from Eswatini.

I neither love nor hate the Irish. To me they are just people from another country, no better and no worse than anyone else.
 
With the twelth of July Orange Day celebrations imminant I did some reading into the history books, in order to better understand what it's all about. Here's some fun facts I discovered :

Fun fact #1 : William of Orange the 3rd married his 15 year old cousin Mary Stuart when he was 27 because she was heir to the English throne.

Fun fact #2 : the Catholic king James he deposed in England was his catholic uncle/ father in law.

Fun fact #3 : From his wife's death In 1694 to his own demise in 1702 he had no female companion yet several male associates. These relationships with male friends, and his apparent lack of mistresses, led William's enemies to suggest that he might prefer homosexual relationships. Some scholars suggest his saucy letters could add support to this claim.

Fun fact 4#: Due to a mistake in calculations, In 1752 the change to the Gregorian calendar necessitated a re-calculation of all historical anniversaries. The Battle of the Boyne was actually on 1st July. Additionally many people mix up the day of the Williamite Wars, the Battle of Aughrim which was fought on July 12th, 1691.

Fun fact #5, : It's not about protestant or catholic at all. William of Orange had the support of the Pope and there where catholics fighting on both sides, as were protestants. It was all about politics in the end - with a few supporters even merrily switching sides during the war. After the death of his wife William actually changed his religion to anglican, the denomination of his opponent James before he converted to catholicism in 1668. For most people It was actually about supporting an absolutist or a parliamentary monarchy.

Fun fact #6: The Battle Wasn't About Ireland at All. Ultimately the battle was about an Englishman an and a Dutchman slugging it out over the English crown on a foreign field. Irish issues were never really raised and Irish freedom wasn't even mentioned.

Fun Fact #7: It wasn't a battle about the Irish against the English, either. A majority of James' troops were Irish with the support of French troops. William's force was even more diverse, with Dutch, German, French Huguenot and even Danish soldiers marching for him as part of the Grand Alliance. In simplistic terms It was the Grand Alliance vs France.

Fun fact #8: The quasi masonic association of Orange Order lodges did not always celebrate the Battle Of The Boyne. It has only done so since its creation in 1795, some 105 years after the battle occurred.

Fun fact #9: Scholars state its highly unlikely he rode a white horse despite very emotional claims from your granda Jim.

Fun fact #10 : In March 1690, 4000 Grand Alliance troops arrived at Belfast to aid William, because they wanted William to get back to leading the war in Europe. At the same time, Louis 14th of France sent troops to aid James. He wanted to prolong the war in Ireland, so that William's attention would be diverted away from France for longer. Battle of the boyne was a proxy battle and a tactical distraction frrom the European one.

Final fact : The "glorious twelth" actually refers to the glorious revolution which refers to the November 1688 deposition and subsequent replacement of James 2nd by Mary Stuart and William of orange which is celibrated on the 11th July with lighting of bonfires. The true "glorious twelth" is the twelfth day of August, marking the start of the shooting season for red grouse .

So in summary the glorious twelth is the celibration of a dutchman who married his cousin, deposed his uncle/father in law and took the English crown . Who then went to Ireland supported by foreign troops from the grand alliance to thwart his uncles comeback supported by French troops. The battle of the boyne was a proxy battle fought on foreign soil as part of the nine years war.

And now I'm really confused what this 329 year old battle has to do with the somme, the ulster volunteer force, the IRA, the tricolour and Sinn Fein ‍♂.
I always raise a glass at this time of year anyway...

To the little gentleman in the black velvet waistcoat

Slainte
 

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