12 months after leaving until you get your pension with JPA!

#1
Further to all the other JPA/Pension threads I thought i would join Arrse and post my story in the hope that it may help others and prompt those still in service to question their chain of command on the matter of pensions and terminal grants.

I left service two months ago after 22 years. After a week in civvy street I went to the bank expecting my terminal grant to have been paid into my account and I was mentally compiling my shopping list as I put my card in the cash machine, yes you've guessed it, the money wasn't in. So I gave it a few more days and tried again still to no avail.

I contacted the admin office of my old unit and was given the contact number for the Joint Personnel Administration Centre, JPAC. (0141 2243600) I telephoned and spoke to someone who didn't really have a clue but promised to phone me back with some information. Needless to say no call was recieved. In the meantime I had received my final pay statement but when I went to the bank there wasnt an amount equal to my pay that had been payed in? I left it a couple of days and tried again, still no money. I studied my pay statement, the new JPA one, (confusing or what?) and noticed that the bank sort code was correct but the account number was wrong. I telephoned JPAC and asked what had happened and all they could do was confirm that it had been payed into the wrong account and that at the moment they couldn't change over my bank details. they promised to call me back, (heard that one before haven't we?) So in the meantime with no money and all the bills dropping through the letterbox life was becoming a bit of a struggle.

A lady phoned me 5 days later to change my bank details and said that they had tried to recall my wages but couldn't. (I still haven't got them now!) but she did change my account details after me having to fax her etc etc. I asked about my P45 and was told it would be in the post to me and that my pension/terminal grant would be sorted. I did actually believe her until a week later and still having no money in the bank I phoned JPAC again, I was actulaly getting a bit pissed off by this stage. (Is that justified?) I was told my P45 was being processed along with my pension and terminal grant.

So after 4 weeks I was at the stage of final pay into wrong account and I still haven't got it back. No terminal grant, no pension and no P45. the gas and electric were threatening to cut me off and I have got no money to spend on beer!

After phoning JPAC every couple of days I finally got to speak to a manager who told me that now under JPA it can take up to, wait for it..................12 months after leaving service for your terminal grant and pension to be paid! (I realise that the title of this post gave the plot away but what the hell)

After 2 months I am now considering legal action but more worryingly it's the end of the month and I can't pay my mortgagae or my bills and will get my services cut off in the next couple of weeks. I have got a civvy job but I wont get paid until the end of next month and because I haven't got a P45 I will get stung for emergency tax!

I have resigned myself to a life of misery and huge credit card debt until I get my terminal grant and feel totally bitter towards the MOD that this is how I am treated after 22 years loyal service.

I urge all of you still serving and especially those in their last few years service to pressure the chain of command for a resolution to this situation. Failing that start saving because you will need the money if you have to wait 12 months for your terminal grant/pension.

Please do something about it while you can, it's too late for me, but you can make a difference if you question your chain of command now!

Do not accept excuses and be aware that once you leave service the MOD does not give a rats arrse about you!!

Rant over and if you have read all of this to the end and are still serving please do something about it. Good luck and all the best to all serving members of ARRSE. I hope you get treated better than I did on completion of your service.

N_P :x
 
#2
Starting to think you are right. I wanted to sort out a few things but instead of speaking to an AGC expert I had to ring up the dreaded helpline instead. After jumping thru lots of hoops I finally got thru to someone who was as helpful as tits on a fish. I just gave up in the end.

Glad to see we have opted for automated shite that passes all our problems onto faceless idiots :(

Progress my arrse!!!!
 
#3
Did you complete the JPA form in which you nominate your final Pay and Pension payments bank account details (the form number eludes me at the moment), this should be completed at least a month prior to discharge, after that your payments will be delayed. The Op bullitin only came out 2 weeks ago and we have now added it to our discharge procedure.
 
#4
LongJohnSilver said:
Did you complete the JPA form in which you nominate your final Pay and Pension payments bank account details (the form number eludes me at the moment), this should be completed at least a month prior to discharge, after that your payments will be delayed. The Op bullitin only came out 2 weeks ago and we have now added it to our discharge procedure.
LJS
My unit wasn't on JPA when I left, over 4 months ago, but prior to leaving I did complete all of the relevant pension/commutation forms etc and was there when they were faxed to Glasgow andthe forms put in the post.

I have contacted the mortgage company, gas and electric to tell them they wont be getting paid this month and they were all very understanding and have delayed my payments for another month.

I contacted the bank to see if my money has been payed into the account that was on my final pay statement but of course they wouldn't tell me.

It's just a case of waiting and being skint! It is totally frustrating but there is nothing I can do.

Funny isn't it? They have had 22 yrs notice of my leaving date and still f*cked it up! :roll:
 
#5
Ususal advice-consult (in no particular order)

RBL
BAFF
Citizens Advice
You lawyer

edited to add

your MP
the press


I have always said (and would be happy for a legal eagle to comment) that the MoD regularly break the law by not paying for work received - at the very least it is a breach of contact.

Sue the buggers. I am owed 3 months of promotion money and am going to issue a redress next month - if everyone affectd starts proceedings then progress might be made.
 
#6
No_Pension said:
LongJohnSilver said:
Did you complete the JPA form in which you nominate your final Pay and Pension payments bank account details (the form number eludes me at the moment), this should be completed at least a month prior to discharge, after that your payments will be delayed. The Op bullitin only came out 2 weeks ago and we have now added it to our discharge procedure.
LJS
My unit wasn't on JPA when I left, over 4 months ago, but prior to leaving I did complete all of the relevant pension/commutation forms etc and was there when they were faxed to Glasgow andthe forms put in the post.

I have contacted the mortgage company, gas and electric to tell them they wont be getting paid this month and they were all very understanding and have delayed my payments for another month.

I contacted the bank to see if my money has been payed into the account that was on my final pay statement but of course they wouldn't tell me.

It's just a case of waiting and being skint! It is totally frustrating but there is nothing I can do.

Funny isn't it? They have had 22 yrs notice of my leaving date and still f*cked it up! :roll:
If you completed the old AF O1809, which was the Legacy Form, I know that they were being rejected some time prior to JPA roll out, we had ours sent back and we were told to resubmit via ICT's, maybe you have been "missed out" during the transition, pretty pants for someone who has completed 22 years service.
 
#7
Dictated by OH as he unloaded the dishwasher:-

As An Army Administrator myself, I would advise that you contact the RAO of your last unit and ask them to pressure the chain of command through their SPS branch and JPAC.

I had a couple of guys that left during the transition period and as far as I am aware they have not had any problems. However, your paperwork was completed long before the transition period by the looks of it and therefore it should not have been a problem.

Fully concur with the advice regarding MP, solicitor, etc., etc., but your old RAO should be able to get things sorted out. To wait 12 months for your pension is completely unacceptable and at the very least you should get the interest owed for that year.

Best of luck


(Dictated by OH)
 
#8
minkeymoo

I would advise that you contact the RAO of your last unit and ask them to pressure the chain of command through their SPS branch and JPAC
My mate is JUST please GOD let it be true getting to the end of his 6 month wait for Glasgow to sort out his commutation. Took 4 for the pension!

All reading in Glasgow must know who he is by now :D

Under the powers given to JPA your Ex-RAO of your last unit cannot do anything on your behalf.

He tried just after JPA came in, his old admin office did help him and did send all documents away for the second time 2 months after he got out (They had no obligation to do so at all, just cos they are a good bunch of blokes).

After 4 months of calling and getting the same loop of leave your number and we will sort it out he took action.

He sent his request for help to the JPAC e-mail address and also to the Veterans help desk. (Nice to have an official record of this type of thing – just in case you might need to take them to court over lost interest!)

A very nice man from the Veterans agency replied within the hour stating to the effect...

We are the Veterans agency and cannot help but have forwarded his e-mail to Glasgow.

Good so far.

2 weeks later -no answer from the help desk (after leaving his details at least 3 times) and no reply from JPA!

He went back to his old admin office (He can still get on camp ) and asked again for help, this time sorry its out of our hands, He had to call himself.

OK he did this and ... got in the ... “What was you number, rank, name, telephone number now and etc.

Then, sorry we cannot help but call back in ten days.

By now he had enough and wanted some official communications from JPA to acknowledge they had even had one call or e-mail.

He sent a polite e-mail stating his grievance and detailing some of his past attempts to obtain a response from JPA. Including (he said) a mention of lawyers, MPs and even Arrse.

Now he knows sod all about P.C’s but somehow managed to send Oh about 10 or so (or was it 20 or 30) copies to JPA one after the other and again a few hours later ... and maybe a few later on as well :twisted:

Now the fun started...He said.

1 . He got a call from Glasgow at 16:45 that very same day (who says those folks don’t work late!) saying “We have no record of your application on the database :( and therefore you needed to send said application off again!”

2. Next day at 08:00 there was on the P.C. an e-mail (the first ever response from JPA but from a different office) Saying his details were :? in the database and a letter would arrive soon with details”.

So 6 months and still waiting HE said but light at the end of the tunnel.

Just don’t keep on sending them e-mails,10, 20 or 30 times OK :twisted:
 
#9
This is getting beyond a joke!

Connect this thread in which a postive outcome eventuated in respect of the claimant.

There are many provisions of the Employment Rights Act 1996 which apply to the Armed Forces which are binding upon the Secretary of State for Defence.

There are two things you must do. First, you must (as you appear to have done) take all reasonable steps to secure payment and be able to produce evidence of having done so, and secondly, you must do everything in your power to mitigate and consequential losses resulting from the breach of contract on the part of the MOD. At first sight, this appears rather a silly statement to make but proof of having done so would be required by the court when it determines the level of compensatory damages to which you are entitled to receive for breach of contract and for any actual losses which have resulted from the breach which you should carefully catalogue and adduce in evidence.

A good employment lawyer will be able to issue an originating summons under the Civil Procedure Rules to the Secretary of State for Defence on your behalf.

You should also bring this issue to the attention of the media. The MOD loathes and detests adverse publicity since it impacts upon it's recruiting base, neutralises the effect of it's expensive advertising and exposes it for the incompetent and institutionally callous organ of state it is!

You have discharged your duty over many years. The state has failed to honour it's obligations to you and appears disinterested and disinclined to do so. It deserves everything it gets!
 
#10
I couldn't agree more more with all the "rants" why the fcuk should we have to fill out the form, JPA form or any other form come to think of it when we are duree to leave. We have a contract, if it isn't renewed it is terminated and any benefits or otherwise are paid or removed.

After 22 years it's hardly a shock that people leave yet we seem to have to inform everyone and if one tiny bit of the "system" remains uninformed then its noones fault but our own.......absolutely pathetic.

My wife recently left a company after 15 years with 8 weeks notice. 1 week after leaving (her resignation was by e-mail) she was sent P45, pension details, contact details for any queries and her final (completely accurate) salary. We give 2 years notice of leaving and it is like a bloody suprise when it actually happens!!!! Good luck to all who decide to make waves, go straight to the papers with tales of service......IMHO lawyers, MPs and especially ex unit clerks are no use
 
#14
All serving personnel would be strongly advised to join the Armed Forces Pension Society. They are completely independant of the chain of command and work on your behalf. They are not permitted to work for you whilst serving but can take up your case on discharge.
 
#15
LongJohnSilver said:
No_Pension said:
LongJohnSilver said:
Did you complete the JPA form in which you nominate your final Pay and Pension payments bank account details (the form number eludes me at the moment), this should be completed at least a month prior to discharge, after that your payments will be delayed. The Op bullitin only came out 2 weeks ago and we have now added it to our discharge procedure.
LJS
My unit wasn't on JPA when I left, over 4 months ago, but prior to leaving I did complete all of the relevant pension/commutation forms etc and was there when they were faxed to Glasgow andthe forms put in the post.

I have contacted the mortgage company, gas and electric to tell them they wont be getting paid this month and they were all very understanding and have delayed my payments for another month.

I contacted the bank to see if my money has been payed into the account that was on my final pay statement but of course they wouldn't tell me.

It's just a case of waiting and being skint! It is totally frustrating but there is nothing I can do.

Funny isn't it? They have had 22 yrs notice of my leaving date and still f*cked it up! :roll:
If you completed the old AF O1809, which was the Legacy Form, I know that they were being rejected some time prior to JPA roll out, we had ours sent back and we were told to resubmit via ICT's, maybe you have been "missed out" during the transition, pretty pants for someone who has completed 22 years service.
Form Number is AFPAA 001.

Regards

LJS
 
#16
Well what a load of problems and negative solutions !!

I cant believe the way you have been treated by both your ex-admin and the Helpdesk.

Can i just explain that yes the 1809 was the document you probably completed on discharge - the reason this is filled out is to capture any outstanding pay, allowances and charges that you are owed or owe. Also the form gives you the choice of bank accounts as to where your terminal benefits (but not Commutation) and monthly pension can be paid and also your final pay balance.

Yes i agree :( we have an old system in order to finalise your 22 years loyal service but we all know and agree that MOD money is better spent on better equipment for the troops on Ops (another discussion :x).

Mmmm JPA what a change this was and where was the technical advice from the RAF and Navy that we were promised ??? All we got was the system is worse !! not what we wanted to hear !! :(

As for your problem i do believe the information you were looking for was to contact the Pension Department via your admin office with regards to ensuring your pension will be paid during Migration of JPA.

Like myself for one of my guys who handed in his ID Card early Apr for Discharge 11 May 07. By making that simple phone call i found out that the form AFPS Form 1 was not knew to the Armed Forces and is a better form than the 1809. They personally emailed me the form in the middle of April for which i completed with my 22 year bloke. On the form it gives you the chance to ask for Commutation at the same time (previously you had within 12 months of leaving to apply for Commutation, not an automatic payment).

AFPS Form 1 allows your final pay and terminal benefit and commutation to be paid to the account your normal monthly salary has been paid. You then have a chance to have your monthly pension to go to a different bank from your spouse :lol: However all payments upon request can be paid elsewhere e.g. Overseas etc

Anyway the form also has a section that is forwarded back from SPVA Pension Dept to confirm receipt of the Form. What i can also confirm is that SPVA(Pensions) have between 5-30 days after discharge to pay you your benefits, definately not 4-6 months !!!! :x

My example finishes in that my soldier received his terminal gratuity and commutation 8 days after discharge thanks to the right phone call and good telephone manner :wink:

If there is anyone with problems dont hesitate to email as i understand the needs of the soldier should come before the needs of the computer :lol:
 
#17
I can't see any negative solutions here, he has been told all this in previous posts, DS, ensure that an AFPS 001 is completed at least 1 month prior to discharge (as per the buisness process guide), thus avoiding late payments etc, I think that this guy may well have completed the old AF O 1809 during transition from UNICOM to JPA and had it bounced, although, this has not been passed on to him, therfore, a delay has occoured.
 
#18
Thanks for all the advice. Latest update:

I have just received my terminal grant but still not had any monthly pension payments. I didn't get the maximum commutation as I asked for and on telephoning the JPAC helpline was told it was no longer their problem and to write to Tri Service pensions in Glasgow.

Letter written and posted and as yet no reply.

Am in the process of seeking legal advice but am still just totally p1ssed off with the whole thing.

One thing I do know, I will never, ever do anything to support the MoD ever again.
Bitter and twisted? Yes, you fecking bet I am!

(LJS, I suspect you are right, bad f*cking admin all round in my opinion, w@nkers!)
 
#20
Can't believe this can still happen to people in this day and age, but unfortantely other half is in same position, no sign of lump sum or pension after 25 years adult service, you would like to think you would be treated a bit better.
 

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