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#2
Firstly, stop refering to young soldiers as kids. If that is what they are hearing from NCO's, that is how they will behave. Understand the young person that is in training today, and be able to think on their level, and maybe you will make a difference to the output of Blandford.

Any NCO who says they would rather hand in their tapes to make their time easier at Blandford doesnt deserve to wear them.

Stop fcuking bleating and do the Corps a favour. Stop focusing on the negatives of Blandford and start doing something about enhancing the positives.

Nay sayers make be gip, dont be a knob, make a difference.

Boney
 
#3
boney_m

Whilst I agree that we should all be looking at the positive rather than the negative, me thinks that things have gone too far.

It is no use keep on looking for the positive if there isn’t any. That would make you a Lib Dem (apologies for swearing at you).

Blandford is not a School, College or University. We are not there to turn them into nice people but soldiers who can perform.

Slippage of standards simply means rejects. It is no good trying to make the rejects work.

Talking of Duty of Care, what about the Duty of Care to the Unit, the COs/OCs of said Unit, the Senior and Junior and NCOs and the colleagues of these people. What about the Duty of Care to Her Majesty and this fine Country?

It needs to be sorted out. They are treated like kids by all, not because they act like kids but because some Liberalist idiot decided that was the best way to protect them.

Treat them like adults; teach them what is expected of them. Make them hard as steel and as sharp as a razor.

Then let them out in order that they can then do what they are supposed to. Provide CIS to the Commanders so they can guide the Teeth Arms to the people we want to mallet.

End of Rant
 
#4
boney_m, by reading your reply, and looking at the text book definitions of training that you give, one can only presume that you are an officer. Maybe "kids" is too strong a term to call them, however that is what they get treated like, kids, not the responsible adult soldiers they are meant to be.
 
#5
RedShaagy Fair points.

However, the vast majourity of NCOs at blandford cant be arrsed with getting involved with disciplining the sprogs at Blnadford. Maybe its because the majority of them are upgraders who are think they are at Blandford to attend a course and bitch and moan about the state of the shale hockey pitch and money being spent on improving the look/safety of marching routes/pavements and not there to hold the nigs hands.

Maybe the problem with this Duty of Care Pish isnt helped by the attitude of the NCOs that have to implement it!
 
#6
:( Whilst Boney_m points are valid so are weasels in my opinion. I have soldiers who come out of Blandford who cannot pass basic mandatory fitness tests and whose trade skills are somewhat lacking ie typing skills and radio awareness !!! range of a 353 ? aaaah dont know is the usual answer !!! . I do make the effort to not whinge too much and train them but at this stage of joining your field unit you should have ready trained soldiers ready for the next phase.

I find that we have to go back to basics and start off by getting them fit and then getting there trade skills up to a basic level where we can start to leave them on there own. This is sometimes a lot sooner than I would like due to manning constraints !!!!!!! I don' t have the time to do this however if I didn't it is me who gets in the neck because they can't pass basic tests !!! :evil:

So back to weasels points yes Blandford should re-assess or whoever is responsible for the state of Class 3 Signallers however as Boney_M said we need to be positive before we all slip into the easy way of whinging. We as a corps should be getting off our arrses (Blandford as well) and get back to having quality soldiers who can run, tab and do their job before they hit the field units !!!

Any takers ?
 
#7
I'm up for it!!!

There should be a lot more military exercises for the youngsters!! And I don't mean those crappy weekend jobs. Proper, hard exercises where they can be tested and tried.

I remember looking towards my final exercises at harrogate (Mercury 4 & 5 and "Hard Pounding") with absolute dread on whether i would cut it or not. Result I worked damned hard to make sure I was ready for it!!!

Put a final exercise in for all trade skills and a proper exercise to test their tac skill and fitness, and use the weekends to build up to them. And if they don't attend (and pass) the exercise then they don't leave Blandford.

Subject of weekend exercises make them monthly. And make it manditory that all personnel, class 3 and 1, attend a given number. That way the two groups can get benefit from it. The class 1s can pass on their knowledge and learn to deal with the little darlings and the class 3's can start to learn how to be soldiers and gain a lot of information about things like units, unit life, etc.

There seems to be a little bit of a wall between the two groups, and those that do cross this wall are either trying knob a bird or seen as a sad loser for talking with the kids!!!

Other solutions could include a more enhanced champion squadron competition. Get all the kids involved regardless of how many teams that would create and get them on some testing competitions.

How about a mini Cumbrian Patrol or "Ex Blandford Patrol". Kicks off straight from trade at 16:30 on friday stops at 13:00 Sunday. Lots of stands testing all manner of different skills and maybe a few sleeping stands too!!! :twisted: All joined together with lots of tabbing. Finish with results and cup giving, two cans each and a bit of a bar b q in squadron areas. Sickies go and clean the rifles and pan bash. Jobs a good un. And who knows, bit of a chat with the civvies, and a late start on Monday, say after Naafi break.

As for weasel99, I agree. Training in is good but it has to be balanced with a ruthless weeding out. Few to many kids coming through who have been let through in the hope they improve. This is also a duty of care, it's wrong to let people through in to positions where they are not trainned or prepared properly to carry out the task at hand. Is it the numbers game?

Perhaps basic should be altered. Break it down in to segments to allow easier backsquading. Start on fitness and hygine, when they hit the mark, start on military skills when ready hit them with a savage exercise (USMC does or did this, they call it the cruicible). Then bit of polishing on drill etc. Make sure they have some nice 2's (Not fcuking 95s) and let mummy and daddy see what they have become.

And for the final rant. Split the sexes in basic. Female instructors for female soldiers in female companies. Again USMC does or did this. And they believe it works. They can compete on a level playing field instead of always being at the back of the squad and made to feel worthless if they try hard, or led to beleive they can mince all the time.
 
#8
The management at Catterick had the right idea. Anyone remember the TTS Express? Parade outside the block for roll call and then all march up to trade, non of this drips and drabs of squads marching themselves upto trade chatting on and messing around.
I've been here (Blandford) for around three months on my course and could not believe what I seen on the marching route. I have since made it my mission to make sure that the soldiers march to trade and back in a orderly and soldier like manner. I know what you are thinking, NO it did not involve shouting at the trainees it involved pulling them up and explaining what I wanted to happen, i.e manners to SNCO's with a morning or afternoon, no talking when marching etc etc. I would say within a week myself and another course member had managed to transform the marching route.
One thing that did amaze me was the fact that a lot of the full screws on the T1 course would not pull the trainees up for the very points I did. When I asked them I was informed that it was easier to let them go instead of getting a bollocking!!! Strange that, as I've pulled plenty of Squads and nobody has come looking for me yet to give me a bollocking.
Eductaion is the key with trainees after all thats what they are here for. I can safely say that most of the courses that know me around camp ( i.e the ones I have pulled up) give me a moring or afternoon Staff whilst marching round camp. Just think if two SNCO's can acheive this what can a collective effort acheive in the long run. At the end of the day we have been given the raw materials its up to all of us to produce the end product.
This post is not designed to have a go at anyone, however if you have an issue then please discuss.

Cheers
 
#9
ipaq said:
One thing that did amaze me was the fact that a lot of the full screws on the T1 course would not pull the trainees up for the very points I did.
From the reports I've had some of these on this course act just like the kids.
 
#10
chocolate_frog said:
I'm up for it!!!

There should be a lot more military exercises for the youngsters!! And I don't mean those crappy weekend jobs. Proper, hard exercises where they can be tested and tried.

I remember looking towards my final exercises at harrogate (Mercury 4 & 5 and "Hard Pounding") with absolute dread on whether i would cut it or not. Result I worked damned hard to make sure I was ready for it!!!

Put a final exercise in for all trade skills and a proper exercise to test their tac skill and fitness, and use the weekends to build up to them. And if they don't attend (and pass) the exercise then they don't leave Blandford.

Subject of weekend exercises make them monthly. And make it manditory that all personnel, class 3 and 1, attend a given number. That way the two groups can get benefit from it. The class 1s can pass on their knowledge and learn to deal with the little darlings and the class 3's can start to learn how to be soldiers and gain a lot of information about things like units, unit life, etc.

There seems to be a little bit of a wall between the two groups, and those that do cross this wall are either trying knob a bird or seen as a sad loser for talking with the kids!!!

Other solutions could include a more enhanced champion squadron competition. Get all the kids involved regardless of how many teams that would create and get them on some testing competitions.

How about a mini Cumbrian Patrol or "Ex Blandford Patrol". Kicks off straight from trade at 16:30 on friday stops at 13:00 Sunday. Lots of stands testing all manner of different skills and maybe a few sleeping stands too!!! :twisted: All joined together with lots of tabbing. Finish with results and cup giving, two cans each and a bit of a bar b q in squadron areas. Sickies go and clean the rifles and pan bash. Jobs a good un. And who knows, bit of a chat with the civvies, and a late start on Monday, say after Naafi break.

As for weasel99, I agree. Training in is good but it has to be balanced with a ruthless weeding out. Few to many kids coming through who have been let through in the hope they improve. This is also a duty of care, it's wrong to let people through in to positions where they are not trainned or prepared properly to carry out the task at hand. Is it the numbers game?

Perhaps basic should be altered. Break it down in to segments to allow easier backsquading. Start on fitness and hygine, when they hit the mark, start on military skills when ready hit them with a savage exercise (USMC does or did this, they call it the cruicible). Then bit of polishing on drill etc. Make sure they have some nice 2's (Not fcuking 95s) and let mummy and daddy see what they have become.

And for the final rant. Split the sexes in basic. Female instructors for female soldiers in female companies. Again USMC does or did this. And they believe it works. They can compete on a level playing field instead of always being at the back of the squad and made to feel worthless if they try hard, or led to beleive they can mince all the time.
nice theory!! ref the exercise bit, you know where to get the funds to hold them? you cant get operational kit is what i hear, so how do you expect to be provided with training equiptment?
 
#11
canteen_cowboy wrote

nice theory!! ref the exercise bit, you know where to get the funds to hold them?
I know my thoughts are a bit ambitious, but if you pay peanuts you get monkeys. My thoughts on change are way beyond what I could achieve as i don't have any sway with the big money spenders and thinkers. But they might be reading this :p

A monthly exercise could be done on the cheap. We could use the airfield. Transport costs would be a minimum. There are a few areas we could basha up in. The rest could return to barracks. But while they were out we could practice field craft and other skills. Maybe throw in a few buckshees like tent erection and vehicle contact drills.

I can always dream.
 
#12
Once again a serious thread has turned into a chance to have a dig at the tech upgraders. For fecks sake in future instead of saying class 1's just say techs so we all know what your talking about. Where in my job description does it say i have to be a trained counciller. THe military side of blandford shoud be dishing out the military stuff and leave the welfare to the trained proffesionals. Yes ALL NCO's shoud be maintaining discipline and standards but you cant expect them to do this and be the "soldiers friend". Not only is this difficult for the NCO's but fecking confusing for the trainees. There are plenty of trained people in blandford to do that job!!!! Can i put the emphasis on TRAINED, your average NCO is not a trained physchologist/counciller why should they be expected to deal with problems and situations that most shrinks would shy away from. The welfare system is there lets encourage the use of it rather than the old keep everything in house attitude.
 
#13
Thebull140 said:
Can i put the emphasis on TRAINED, your average NCO is not a trained physchologist/counciller why should they be expected to deal with problems and situations that most shrinks would shy away from. The welfare system is there lets encourage the use of it rather than the old keep everything in house attitude.
How much training to do you need to pull nigs up for talking/fannying about on the marching route and being disrespectful to higher ranks??? Its not about welfare its about all people taking an interest about the nigs at blandford in order to produce a highly trained and motivated soldier that is going to fit in when he/she arrives at their first unit. Dispite the lack of training they will receive whilst on their courses at Blandford.

Saying all that I know the average nig is different these days. The vast majority of them have big arrsed chips on thier shoulders and think that the army owes them something, but surely that is down to basic training not weeding out the undesirables.
 
#14
Battle skills lesons out doors, bashering up over night, combat survival lessons, i.e traps, tracking, water collection, map reading the list goes on and it can all be done on camp. I myself would volunteer to take part and I KNOW plenty of others that would as well.

With ref to the full screws on T1's not a drama if I see any of them messing about I'll pull them up as well in a manor not to undermine them in front of trainees. Have only done on one occasion for walking around with his hands in pockets while trainees marching past, nothing really just not setting a good example.

This brings me onto another point which is upgraders been marched off on parades. Fair one if a guys in a state, he should be informed on the parade that he should report to the SSM's office straight after. The SSM should give him a rocket up his arse followed by a couple of weekend duties. Always worked when I was on my upgraders course.
 
#15
FAO theBULL not asking you to give each trainee his own councilling session mate. But getting a grip on the marching route would be a good start. As a SNCO I should not have to get involved gripping trainees as you should have already done it. However after reading your post you'll do well as a troop Sgt at your next unit...........hmmmmmm
For the record I'm a tech myself and had no dramas gripping probably the likes of yourself when on my T1. Have a look at your rank slide and start using it, if not then get yourself down the QM's and hand it in.
 
#16
As ex REME I don't want to intrude on internal Sigs politics, BUT don't think it's just you guys who have issues with the standard of trainees. It's the standard of raw material we get in through the door across the army (navy and RAF as well I imagine).

If the standards were not lowered (as they definitely have been) we may not have anything getting through training. It's not great but it's the way it is so make the most of what you have.

Be thankfully that you are getting something you may be able to shape into a soldier and tradesman rather than nothing at all.
 
#17
I think my point was missed here, I aint saying class 1 upgraders shouldnt be gripping trainees. The should and i have on a few occasions when required. At the end of the day we are NCO's and should act like them. The point i'm trying to make is we are not trained to deal with some of the problems that the trainees here seem to have. We should let the trainees deal with their own problems a bit more rather than letting him go running to the troops every 5 minutes. For example if a soldier is having a problem instead of running to the troop straight away let him deal with it his self, yeah point him in the right direction and guide him, but let him learn and find out who can help him. Then when he sees his mate going through something he can turn round and say well i went to these people etc etc and they sorted it out. Not only will this take the pressure off the already overstretched troop cadre but help young soldiers learn, bond, mature and most importantly allow them, in 5 years time, to sit down and gob off on arrse about how everybody after them had it much easier.
 
#18
Point taken Bull my main effort is to make sure trainees march to and from trade in a soldier like manor, respect JNCO's, SNCO's, Warrent officers, and Officers. Due to my job this is the only time I come into contact with the trainees but I like to think I make a difference and after 1 week of gripping trainees I know I have. As I've already said its not a bollocking for them but education or in some cases re-education. A good point to back this up is a recent event when walking back home from trade. A troop of white tabs where been marching up the marching route, very smart, not a peep, young girl marching them (also a white tab) gave me a hearty afternoon staff as they marched past. If these are the guys and girls straight out of basic training then that tells me phase 1 have got it right. Something ain't happening at phase 2 level as trainees who have been here for some time never really acknowledge you until prompted.
Ref your points on advice, yes I would be very careful what advice you give a trainee, you are correct I would not want to get to involved (unless I was in his/her chain of command) but would point in the correct direction. Troop cpl, troop sgt and not straight to SSM. WRVS, Padre etc etc
 
#19
Phase 1 have got it right. I've seen similar things to ipaq and felt the same. Somebody needs to assess this and look at the reason why blandford is letting down trainees. If they've been good soldiers before why cant they be again. Yes more exercises will work but funding comes in as previously highlighted. I suppose you could exercise on the airfield but that in itself is probably worse, there is nothing more demoralising than an arrse exercise. One of my ideas is to incorporate a bit of military training into the course. Send them down the training wing for a day a week and not just the class 3's do it to the upgraders to. I know i wouldnt object to the odd afternoon rembering how to be a soldier again. An idea like this would not only keep the miltary skill up, it would break down the tedium of the classroom and allow the course to bond as they did with their section in basic.

As for sending them straight to the troop not the WRVS/Padre. If it was a military issue then yeah send him to the troop, if the lad is feeling upset because his mums friends sisters daughters hamster is sick then why not send him to the padre/wrvs. Although if he had bonded more with his peers he could talk it over with them. We aint supposed to do it anymore or encourage it but what exactly is wrong with sitting down in the naafi with your mates and talking problems over and having a laugh about them. I know when simething similar to recent events happend during my time here as a trainee thats what we did.
 

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