1000 'dangerously' untrained TA deployed on Telic

#1
#2
Filbert Fox said:
Just read the artical in the Independent about the TA who couldnt even pass their weapon handling tests who were deployed on Telic, and could even be as high as 2300.
Turns out that Chilwells instructors couldnt pass them either!!!
Sad but true. Pike drill's gone to hell in a wheelbarrow since Cromwell croaked.
 
#3
I still find this story (based on claims made by the court martial defence) hard to believe 100%. Any time I have been through such processes, NO-ONE would not get through without passing on marksmanship, let alone weapon handling.

I do see that the numbers involved in Telic 1 must have swamped the system, which has to be robust enough to allow for coaching and retesting failures. Chilwell should have known from previous experience what percentage failures to expect and allow for.
 
#4
hackle said:
I still find this story (based on claims made by the court martial defence) hard to believe 100%.
I doubt very much that it would have got to Court Martial if it wasnt true. these days for it to get that far, the procecution would have to know that theyve a bullet proof case.
The WO in charge of the training said during the proceedings, that he sent letters of concern to senior officers about it the standard of the TA, and letters to his own instructors telling them to get a grip and that they should 'take a look in the mirror' at themselves.
 
#5
Thanks for info and comment, FF. (We may be talking slightly at cross purposes, surely the claims about training deficiencies were advanced by the defence, not the prosecution.)
 
#6
I still believe that the blame lies with the soldiers' parent unit. Although RTMC has a very important validation / confirmation role to play, they can hardly be expected to iron out the poor skills prevailing in certain units / trades in the time they have. I will add however that this issue must be added to the general list of lessons learned from TELIC. Had the government mobilised these troops earlier, instead of playing for time that did not exist the training gap might have been closed.
 
#7
8O .........1000 'dangerously' untrained TA deployed on Telic

Begs the question.........is there any other sort? would they be 'dangerously' trained as opposed to untrained...........we need to know 8O
 
#8
Not only dangerous. Probably inelegant too.
You know the type; helmet on the side of the head and trousers bloused just a little too high...
 
E

error_unknown

Guest
#9
In fairness to the instructors, they were going through Chilwell at a rate of 250 per day. They had 4 days to get us to pass all ITDs again before sending onto our receipient units. Chilwell had never experienced anything like this volume.

Intakes was mostly support arms, and lets just say their standard of wpn handling was 'different' to Inf types. SAA trained TA NCOs were stood in the corridor giving rolling instruction to the ones that the instrs were failing before sending them straight back in. They were still only allowed 4/5 hours to pass everyone. (And that was on the new A2 which no one had ever seen, taking into account slightly diff drills). They did their best but the long and the short of it was they had to pass. Demand and supply.
 
#10
HLS said:
8O .........1000 'dangerously' untrained TA deployed on Telic
Begs the question.........is there any other sort? would they be 'dangerously' trained as opposed to untrained...........we need to know 8O
:lol: :lol:

OldandCold said:
I still believe the blame lies with the soldiers parent unit
what about this bit?:
The Independent said:
A total of 949 part-time soldiers failed to achieve the required standard or were trained by instructors who had not passed the test themselves
 
#11
Looks much better in red, thanks.
I'm actually staggered. Can it really be?
My rifle Company did it's bit's and bobs with the RHU at Grantham. 1 Staffs provided the training team; they were first class in attitude and approach.
However they did say that it was v. v. difficult to cope with the more usual all arms or individual reservist intake.
 
#12
#13
and i dont think the incompetence is limited to Telic 1 either.
 
#15
Das Stab said:
They did their best but the long and the short of it was they had to pass us. Demand and supply.
I totally agree with DS's statement.....

Can you just imagine how few TA soldiers would have been mobilised if the only thing they had to do, had they NOT wanted to go to Iraq, was fail the WHTs. Not many methinks as it would be an easy way out!! :x

This has been going on for a long time (at least 4 years). The ITDs were always put up to the troops as "you don't need to pass as long as you make a good attempt". very subjective as to what a 'good' attempt is!!
 
#16
biohazardboots said:
Filbert Fox said:
and i dont think the incompetence is limited to Telic 1 either.

Or stabs!
While mobilised with a reg unit in the UK for around 9 months prior to and during Telic we had our range days cancelled at least three times. Kept getting thrown off as teeth arms frantically trained up for Telic. So when the inevitable few got dragged off at short notice for Telic their drills were somewhat rusty....

I also note that the A2 was new to the soldiers concerned and that the few hours at Chilwell included conversion training as well. I do agree that the units concerned didn't provide enough training but then again it's almost impossible to get more than one weekend a year on the range organised due to lack of facilities.
 
#17
OotS,

Agreed BUT... the main thread and jonno report is about WHT's you don't need a range to complete these, what ever happened to dry trainning at your TAC? Being rusty is no excuse. Your a soldier first whatever.
 
#18
Yes, but with only 27 training days a year, certain skills will be rusty.

Oldandcold has it right: Had the government mobilised these troops earlier, instead of playing for time that did not exist the training gap might have been closed.

This is the crux of it.

msr
 
#19
Twicer,
I went through Chilwell for Telic, and it was pretty obvious that if one wasn't up for it, there were ways out. The take up rate for stabs was far higher than that for reservists. So kindly refrain from making ill informed and defamatory comments (or shut the f-ck up in other words),

There is no excuse for sending anyone who has not passed basic wpn handling tests to an operational theatre, regular or TA, then again there was no excuse for sending people away from Chilwell with NBC suits two sizes too small and with no respirator canisters. We have a government that it very keen on holding corporations responsible for the actions of their employees (corporate manslaughter etc) perhaps TCH, TCB and that twot in 11 Downing street should admit their guilt and resign.
 
#20
Sobering thought:

If "we" were (apparently) deploying reservist troops who may not have been at the required standard, what were the Spams doing?

8O
 

Similar threads

Latest Threads

Top