100 Royal Marines defeat 1500 conventional US troops in exercise

Themanwho

LE
Book Reviewer
The point of placing articles is to shape perceptions and the fact that Carter attached himself to the article with such an extended name-check shows that this is a perception shared at the highest level. If it was done casually, that makes those involved even more cretinous.
We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. Where you see dangerous perceptions at high levels and some others see some kind of conspiracy to support further cuts, all I see is a puff piece which which the CDS has remarked upon.

One of us is right; I hope it's me.
 
BB it kinda seems your Army is going to be shrunk to the point it won't be able to deploy conventional forces along side our own. Cyber and Drones are great, but we have those already. You lot need to modernize your armor, arty etc and ditch the gloried light infantry which have some very real limitations against other forces who are heavy and your next door neighbors. Your light battalions will run the very real risk of being cutoff and bypassed and left to wither on the vine when dealing with people who believe in maneuver warfare.
Yep.

Seems as if our Army is very much the poor cousin, while the RAF and RN seem to ahve thought about future needs threats and requirements, and seems to be fielding some very capable kit - T45, various types of submarines, Typhoon, F35 etc.
 
Yep.

Seems as if our Army is very much the poor cousin, while the RAF and RN seem to ahve thought about future needs threats and requirements, and seems to be fielding some very capable kit - T45, various types of submarines, Typhoon, F35 etc.
Yes and without trying to be an offensive Hillbilly from BFN...
Your Army will be used as an example of what to fund and what not to fund in our own budget wars.
When the end strength cuts come to our Army so the Navy can screw up their ship building program even more, the light infantry mafia is going to be told to eat a bag full of dicks. The 11 Active and 5 Guard ABCT's won't be cut. Infantry BCT's will take the hit and the National Guard will get to make up the slack if it comes down to it.
 
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At the end of the day, we’re a fighting nation by birthright.
Getting shiters and knocking the piss out of each other then bezzering afterwards is part of our DNA. Everyone has come over here and had a pop, the Vikings, the Romans, the French and every other cxxt who thinks they can take us on. It may have taken us a while to reconsolidate, but we’ve managed to fxxk everyone off back into the oggin with a “fxxk me that was an expensive hiding” look on their faces. Bottom line, we don’t need anyone else.
We just pretend we do so we can rob all your kit (why pay for it when a mug and his kit is easily parted).
So hand over your Gucci kit, scoff and ammunition and fxcking watch how fighting is done properly
 

Themanwho

LE
Book Reviewer
A similar thing happened on Exercise Reforger in 87.
One British armoured sqn and a Bundeswehr infantry company ruined the day for the 'Hell on Wheels' Armoured Div.
Great fun, excellent training but in the grand scheme of things nothing to get excited about.
 
The RM were used as a free thinking enemy who did throw some curveballs at the Semper Highs.

I recall a UK TV doco which featured footage of a USMC excercise where the OPFOR were themselves USMC. At one point the OPFOR had hidden in a FIBUA type facility and the doco types were interviewing their commander (in the dark). He commented that he could hear Blue Forces around them, at one point I think downstairs in the same bulding. They were clearly not being thorough and he pointed this out sying his guys would be able to cause great trouble shortly.
 
My Uncle served with 2 Sqn RAF back in the heady days when they flew Jaguars which struggled to take off under full combat load if the weather was or wasn't hot enough (I forget which, but the implication was that it was so underpowered that in certain atmospheric conditions it couldn't lift off with much extra weight).

He told a tale of a Red Flag exercise between the RAF and the USAF, over there obviously. The RAF played the attackers, aiming to get a (presumably nuclear) bomb onto target. They sent a Vulcan flying very low, so the story goes, which the US fighters saw and picked up, and made an interception. They got a missile lock, the umpire confirmed that would have been a kill, and the Vulcan duly peeled off -- to reveal a Buccaneer flying under its shadow.

There was a narrow meandering valley which the Buccaneer was able to slip into thanks to the Vulcan shielding it. It flew in low and slow and the fighters couldn't obtain a lock nor enter the valley. Fortunately it ended some distance before the target, so they waited above it. Come the end of the valley, the Buccaneer opened the throttle and climbed out. The US fighters intercepted and obtained their lock-on, but not before the Buccaneer pilot had lobbed the bomb in a parabolic arc which landed with surprising precision less than a hundred yards from the marker.

Did this happen? No idea. Had the story grown in the telling? Almost certainly. What does it prove?

At best that in limited circumstances we could use a bit of ingenuity to get a minor win. I doubt it meant that the RAF was vastly superior to the USAF at the time, or could even expect another similar success. Stories from the rest of the Red Flag exercise that year were not so well shared through the RAF. Presumably that's because the other engagements were less than successful.

Well done to the RM, but as this smacks of over selling a one off rather.

Equally I'm a honking civie so my insight here is naturally very uninformed. Maybe we are amazing and will be re-writing the rules of war. That would be quite the morale booster, I'm sure.
 
I was section commander and thought running across the big open field pepper potting was a shit idea for a section attack, so I let off loads of smoke got delta fire time to occasionally fire some blank rounds and let of more smoke while I led charlie fire team down the side using small ridges and the tree line as cover. We attacked the enemy from about 10 meters away because they were focused on their front. Afterwards I was about to get tuned in by the DS, until the CO said what a marvelous idea it was. (And all of a sudden everyone else agreed). The CO was probably bored shitless watching the previous section attacks doing the same thing over and over again.
Is this a wah?

Or are you actually claiming to have invented flanking?
 
My Uncle served with 2 Sqn RAF back in the heady days when they flew Jaguars which struggled to take off under full combat load if the weather was or wasn't hot enough (I forget which, but the implication was that it was so underpowered that in certain atmospheric conditions it couldn't lift off with much extra weight).

He told a tale of a Red Flag exercise between the RAF and the USAF, over there obviously. The RAF played the attackers, aiming to get a (presumably nuclear) bomb onto target. They sent a Vulcan flying very low, so the story goes, which the US fighters saw and picked up, and made an interception. They got a missile lock, the umpire confirmed that would have been a kill, and the Vulcan duly peeled off -- to reveal a Buccaneer flying under its shadow.

There was a narrow meandering valley which the Buccaneer was able to slip into thanks to the Vulcan shielding it. It flew in low and slow and the fighters couldn't obtain a lock nor enter the valley. Fortunately it ended some distance before the target, so they waited above it. Come the end of the valley, the Buccaneer opened the throttle and climbed out. The US fighters intercepted and obtained their lock-on, but not before the Buccaneer pilot had lobbed the bomb in a parabolic arc which landed with surprising precision less than a hundred yards from the marker.

Did this happen? No idea. Had the story grown in the telling? Almost certainly. What does it prove?

At best that in limited circumstances we could use a bit of ingenuity to get a minor win. I doubt it meant that the RAF was vastly superior to the USAF at the time, or could even expect another similar success. Stories from the rest of the Red Flag exercise that year were not so well shared through the RAF. Presumably that's because the other engagements were less than successful.

Well done to the RM, but as this smacks of over selling a one off rather.

Equally I'm a honking civie so my insight here is naturally very uninformed. Maybe we are amazing and will be re-writing the rules of war. That would be quite the morale booster, I'm sure.
dits.png
 
homeopathic medicine says that the weaker it is the stronger it is...... so if we don't turn up the enemy will die!!

Whilst the Defence Chiefs say this is utter nonsense the Treasury is slowly adopting the concept.
 
Couldn't see this posted anywhere else as a topic so thought I'd add it.



At an urban warfare exercise last year in California, the British say, nearly 100 marine commandos defeated 1,500 of their US counterparts because of help from the situational awareness technology.


“The normal assault rules are completely inverted,” said Dan Cheesman, the chief technology officer with the Royal Navy. “It’s not three or four to one that’s needed, it’s one to four.

Other military technology he highlighted included a DefendTex “flying grenade”, a drone carrying an explosive he described as having the mobility of a “snitch” from the Harry Potter books, and a larger Malloy drone used to dump supplies and possibly one day ferry wounded soldiers from a battlefield. There are also plans to test jetpacks in Portsmouth harbour later this year. - Guardian


Our Future Commando Force attacked in the urban warfare exercise. Conventional tactics suggest they would need to heavily outnumber the defending Americans.

But working in eight teams of 12, they outmanoeuvred their rivals and used helicopter drones linked to screens on their chests to pinpoint weak spots.

The £400million drill in California had to be cut short because the British victory was so swift and unexpected. - The Sun



Well done to the Royal Marines, perhaps new tech is the way forward?
New techs not necessarily needed. The same can be achieved with old tech.

Princess Patricias Regiment of the Canadian army did a similar exercise many years ago. They were so effective the training ground they did it in in the states is now called Princess Patricias hill.

American mechanised infantry unit with all the bells and whistles versus a Canadian light infantry company.

light infantry advance on foot towards the armoured infantry unit and got in amongst them. US couldn’t dismount. Every time they tried to get out of the Bradley’s because every time they opened the door they’d have somebody up close and personal blatting off blanks into the inside of the Bradley.

The CO was relived and replaced by somebody else. Same effect.

The problems for attacking troops are magnified dramatically in an Urban environment.

there was an exercise I’m the states in the 90s. (Purple something or other)

the same happened when the Americans tried to take the FIBUA village the Ghurkas were defending. I think the USMC Colonel summed it up though. ‘Not very realistic as we’d have flattened it with Airstrikes and Artillery by now.’
 
Goose green, 400 paras beat 1,500 dug in argies... using Russian maths of a 10:1 attack ratio... that would taken 15,000 Russians.... dig in the 400 Paras and too defeat them would take 15,000 x 10 (Attack ratio again) =150,000.

Military maths!
 
Goose green, 400 paras beat 1,500 dug in argies... using Russian maths of a 10:1 attack ratio... that would taken 15,000 Russians.... dig in the 400 Paras and too defeat them would take 15,000 x 10 (Attack ratio again) =150,000.

Military maths!
no tech; no drones; no integrated effects....the emperor has just returned his new clothes to Asos....
 
Is this a wah?

Or are you actually claiming to have invented flanking?

Errrrr no Im claiming the most section attacks in the RLC are run forward through a large open field.
Because thats the way its always been done.
 
RM seem to have been effective at exploiting new tech. However, someone needs to remind MoD that in order for a 'force multiplier' to have any value, you need to have the forces to multiply.
 
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