10 reasons not to kill Bush

#3
Thanks for posting.

I dislike the author's oh-mercy-me handwaving over the vitrol that a lot of people in this country feel towards Bush. She might be confused by the campus activity around her, though...West Coast college students are NOT reflective of the general population — were they so, Kerry would have won the election. But I think her logic is sound. :?
 
#4
poet said:
and here 1000 reasons why we should kill him
by another Democrat? :lol:
 
#5
TankiesYank said:
Thanks for posting.

...West Coast college students are NOT reflective of the general population — were they so, Kerry would have won the election. But I think her logic is sound. :?
Probably so, however from other reading I suspect the views of West Coast college Democrats/librals are not that different from College student democrat/liberals across the US. At least they seem to to whinge loudly.
 
#6
RCSignals said:
Probably so, however from other reading I suspect the views of West Coast college Democrats/librals are not that different from College student democrat/liberals across the US. At least they seem to to whinge loudly.
Well, since you bring it up... :twisted:

As an (admittedly centrist) Democrat, and a heavy taxpayer, I'm thinking I didn't b!tch loudly enough. That's the problem, we're too busy being nicey-nice and saying things like "oh, everybody's worldview is valid, blah blah mushmouth."

In the meantime, access to family planning in the States is being legislated out of existence, school systems in ruins and a plummeting literacy rate, over 20 million working American adults with no access to healthcare, and no recourse for negligence by HMOs when you do get it...and the only solution coming from our current administration is "Praise the Lord and pass the ammo!"

In America, it's not enough protection for civs to "just get rich and the Devil take the hindermost," as seems to be the perception of many expats. Because it's amazing how fast you can go from being comfortable in your gated community to being broke here in the States. You never believe it until you've been there, though.

This is not just a pointless b!tch...these are concrete issues that people face every day. It's a big breakdown, and many Americans can see it regardless of party affiliation. The questions should be:

1. Shouldn't we try to address America's infrastructure problems while we're busy bringing democracy to the benighted?
2. Would we all be able to put party differences aside to support the person that could truly do so?

Rant over-ish. I wonder if there's any Red Stripe left in the fridge...
 
#7
:lol: Now TankiesYank, you sound like the Democrat the other Democrat who wrote the article is talking about.

Was it all so rosey in the two Presidential terms pre-Bush?

Lets see, access to family planning in the States was being legislated out of existence, school system was ruins and a plummeting literacy rate, over 20 million working American adults with no access to healthcare, and no recourse for negligence by HMOs when you do get it.

(Even though schools systems and healthcare are State and local issues, and all americans have unrestricted access to Healthcare in one form or another. They just don't all pay for it.)



So where is the answer?

Oh, and sorry about your gated community experience. At least you are still a heavy taxpayer. Do you not pay enough?
 
#8
Its funny how everyone is quick to point out America's faults but seem to backslide on the problem's of their own country. Unemployment in Europe is much higher than the US as are taxes. Healthcare is bankrupting the socialist states of Europe as is the welfare state. The private sector is wallowing in government regulation and taxation at the expense of growth. What will happen to the socialist world when they can no longer raise taxes to pay for their ponzi scheme that passes for healthcare/welfare ? Their economies will collapse because business nor individuals will have enough money to pay taxes AND eat. Give me the US anyday rather than pay 90% of my wages to the government [as is the case in Sweden].
 
#9
tomahawk6 said:
Its funny how everyone is quick to point out America's faults but seem to backslide on the problem's of their own country. Unemployment in Europe is much higher than the US as are taxes. Healthcare is bankrupting the socialist states of Europe as is the welfare state. The private sector is wallowing in government regulation and taxation at the expense of growth. What will happen to the socialist world when they can no longer raise taxes to pay for their ponzi scheme that passes for healthcare/welfare ? Their economies will collapse because business nor individuals will have enough money to pay taxes AND eat. Give me the US anyday rather than pay 90% of my wages to the government [as is the case in Sweden].
Fair points,

I am a Conservative through and through, i do believe in government intervantion in the private sector, i also understand the need for taxes and a welfare state.

You keep telling yourself what you have just mentioned and the under regulated and under taxed private sectors of your economy will continue to abuse you. Whether it be through car loans, medical health insurance, or the other presures that force you to remain a slave to your own existance.

I am a born Englishman and proud of my country, i have many freedoms which i take for granted. I have the right to roam my beautiful country, breath the air and listen to the birds.

Safe in the knowledge that if i come down with some terrible disease my government sees the ethical reasons for supplying me with aid. Without the need for me to have an employeer medical health plan, or for my familly to be lavoured with debt for my treatment.

I also benefit from a law and justice system that ensures that i shall be innocent until guilt and not be sent away by a Judge who is chasing the popular vote, as he is elected.

The British economy is strong and varied, with a heavy base in the finnancial markets. It has continued to grow year on year and unemployment has declined, despite the shift in type of labour in demand. As a nation each individual on the whole works hard and values their time for leisure. This is why we enjoy a reletivly strong pound in the exchange at the moment, this put basically means that the good and services of the UK in general are in greater demand by the international community. We have a national debt that is significantly smaller even proportionally than the USA's and it is continuing to shrink to a more managable size.

I live amoung a nation of generally well educated citizens, who own a passport and used it. They have an understanding and respect of other cultures and are able to criticise their own. We live in a European community where on the whole we get on well with our neighbours and allow each others citizens to trade and work within the other countries.
Our citizens in general have had equal oppotunity to educate themselves and go on to our great accademic insitutions not hindered by the need for financial wealth. Many students of Oxford, Cambridge and our other leading academic institutions do not come from a priveledged back ground and get where they end up through merit not financial clout. There is no need for individuals to sign up for the military to simply pay for their education, this obviously not being the correct motivation to join.

I can walk out of my front door and immediatly come face to face with history, culture and identity that we have. The British have been around for many years and stood the test of time, in the past we have held great influence over the world but over time have realised the need to pass this.
I am sure we will be a strong nation for many more years.

Despite what posts are on this site criticise our country and its government these are only short term issues, in the overall scheme of things. We may not harp on about our nationalism or see the need to gloat, however i am all my fellow subjects do stand sholder to sholder on what it does mean to be a proud Englishman (Very noticable when the football is on).

Not meaning to have a dig but on the practical side of things. What is going to happen to the USA when conventional energy sources dry up. How will you cope with warm beer and no car. I am used to warm beer and i can walk to the store to buy it. Also the USA is increasing its national debt at a worrying rate. There is also a worrying amount Ultra-Christian morallity influencing the government of todays USA (i.e. Birth control and Stem cell research) that does not bode well for progress.

The higher you are the mightier the fall.

Dont get me wrong i love the USA and always will, value a lot of what it stands for and i am grateful for what it has done in the past (i.e. WWs and Marshall plan etc...) I feel that my high held respect for such a nation is begining to suffer.

Do not allow yourself to be hoodwinked by those set above you, that word everthing as if it were for the greater good and Freedom. Allow those to criticise it is part of reasoned debate. Take a step back and asked what would those founding fathers say about some of this present regimes practices.
 

Auld-Yin

ADC
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Reviews Editor
#12
tomahawk6 said:
If the US falls, the rest of the free world will follow.
That used to be said about Britain.

Mind you we did have a couple of world wars and a few 'police' actions following on.
 
#13
tomahawk6 said:
Its funny how everyone is quick to point out America's faults but seem to backslide on the problem's of their own country. Unemployment in Europe is much higher than the US as are taxes. Healthcare is bankrupting the socialist states of Europe as is the welfare state. The private sector is wallowing in government regulation and taxation at the expense of growth. What will happen to the socialist world when they can no longer raise taxes to pay for their ponzi scheme that passes for healthcare/welfare ? Their economies will collapse because business nor individuals will have enough money to pay taxes AND eat. Give me the US anyday rather than pay 90% of my wages to the government [as is the case in Sweden].
Fair enough T6, but as you are effectively a Federal employee, you enjoy a degree of job-security, and a welfare system that the vast majority of your countrymen can only dream about. Would you so relish the US's brand of red in tooth and claw capitalism if you were only a couple of paychecks away from being on the street?
Think on, young man... :wink:
 
#14
tomahawk6 said:
Its funny how everyone is quick to point out America's faults but seem to backslide on the problem's of their own country. [SNIP]
One reason your country gets so much stick is that you are considered by many to do little else but career about the planet foisting your society and values on others, often at gunpoint. If you hold yourselves up as the one true way then you must expect some comeback. Add to this your unfortunate tendency to cede the moral high ground and any surprise at the statements made by others merely point to failings in your G2 setup.
 

luke

War Hero
#15
tomahawk6 said:
Its funny how everyone is quick to point out America's faults but seem to backslide on the problem's of their own country. Unemployment in Europe is much higher than the US as are taxes. Healthcare is bankrupting the socialist states of Europe as is the welfare state.
You need to open your eyes a little pal.

For a start Europe isn't a country, and secondly most European countries record 'unemployment' very differently to the US.

Most Euopean countries record unemployment as anyone not employed, whereas the US disregards anyone who is homeless or not actively seeking employment as 'undesirables', not worthy of inclusion in the unemployment figure.

Britain used to record it the same way as the US, but now we include anyone and everyone not employed (and employment is still higher now Maggie is collecting dust ;) )

One_of_the_strange said:
tomahawk6 said:
Its funny how everyone is quick to point out America's faults but seem to backslide on the problem's of their own country. [SNIP]
One reason your country gets so much stick is that you are considered by many to do little else but career about the planet foisting your society and values on others, often at gunpoint. If you hold yourselves up as the one true way then you must expect some comeback. Add to this your unfortunate tendency to cede the moral high ground and any surprise at the statements made by others merely point to failings in your G2 setup.
Pretty much hit the nail on the head.

I'm amazed at the number of Americans dimissing torture at Guantanamo Bay as 'A-OK' because "hey, at least we ain't cuttin' peoples heads off".
 
#16
If tomorrow all the things were gone I’d worked for all my life,
And I had to start again with just my children and my wife.
I’d thank my lucky stars to be living here today,
‘Cause the flag still stands for freedom and they can’t take that away.

And I’m proud to be an American where at least I know I’m free.
And I won’t forget the men who died, who gave that right to me.
And I’d gladly stand up next to you and defend her still today.
‘Cause there ain’t no doubt I love this land God bless the U.S.A.

From the lakes of Minnesota, to the hills of Tennessee,
across the plains of Texas, from sea to shining sea,

From Detroit down to Houston and New York to LA,
Well, there’s pride in every American heart,
and it’s time to stand and say:

I’m proud to be an American where at least I know I’m free.
And I won’t forget the men who died, who gave that right to me.
And I’d gladly stand up next to you and defend her still today.
‘Cause there ain’t no doubt I love this land God bless the U.S.A.
8)
 

OldSnowy

LE
Moderator
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#17
luke said:
Britain used to record it the same way as the US, but now we include anyone and everyone not employed (and employment is still higher now Maggie is collecting dust ;) )
Err, not quite. What about the millions (and it is very large numbers) of people who are not counted in the UK unemployment statistics as they are 'signed off' on the sick? In many cases they are people considered simply too old for employment - in that no-one will give them a job - and sympathetic GPs sign them off.

I do beleive that we have by far the highest proportion of sickies in the workforce in Europe. Helps keep the "true " unemployment figures down, of course :twisted:
 
#18
WEATHERMAN1956 said:
If tomorrow all the things were gone I’d worked for all my life,
And I had to start again with just my children and my wife.
I’d thank my lucky stars to be living here today,
‘Cause the flag still stands for freedom and they can’t take that away.

And I’m proud to be an American where at least I know I’m free.
And I won’t forget the men who died, who gave that right to me.
And I’d gladly stand up next to you and defend her still today.
‘Cause there ain’t no doubt I love this land God bless the U.S.A.

From the lakes of Minnesota, to the hills of Tennessee,
across the plains of Texas, from sea to shining sea,

From Detroit down to Houston and New York to LA,
Well, there’s pride in every American heart,
and it’s time to stand and say:

I’m proud to be an American where at least I know I’m free.
And I won’t forget the men who died, who gave that right to me.
And I’d gladly stand up next to you and defend her still today.
‘Cause there ain’t no doubt I love this land God bless the U.S.A.
8)
excuse me whilst i throw up into my lap. Yet another stroker tune from the tone dead country back waters.

Sorry to be so harsh just isnt my cup of tea, see. Land of hope and glory jerusalem, those are more my kind of easy listening choice. Anthems of backbone, stiff upper lip and humbleness.

The rendition above is tantamount to the crime "3 lions on the shirt" comitted in 1996 in Britain, summing up the bad parts of our culture all to well.

Ours, yob like behaviour. The USA's, being over zealous back slapping.
 
#19
Incoming rant.

This is not to rag on WEATHERMAN1956 because his intentions are clearly good. But it brings me to, IMHO, the greater issue.

When debate, questioning or criticism of our government and its internal systems and polices are no longer allowed because it's "un-American" to do so....when anyone who raises a concern is "against us," not "with us"....then where does that figure into the much-vaunted freedom referred to in that song?

Freedom isn't just the right to make as much cash as one possibly can and then see who dies with the most toys (although many Americans interpret it as such). Nowhere in our founding documents does it say anything about:

- The right to get rich
- The right to deny certain people a life in the U.S because one doesn't feel comfortable having them here
- The right to declare a litmus test on who's a Real American based on religion or political stance

As defined by the Constitution, our basic personal guarantees are:

- Freedom of religion and religious expression (um, yeah, that includes non-Christians and even *gasp* atheists)
- Freedom of speech (often used by the cruel and ignorant to defend why they don't have to be considerate of anyone else...but the Supreme Court has also recognized that some deliberate speech will cause a breach of the peace or violence, and thus "fighting words" like the N-word, f@ggot, etc., are not protected speech — use at your own risk).
- Freedom of the press (as above, "fighting words" in press are not protected)
- Freedom of assembly
- Freedom to petition the government for a redress of grievances, and the implied rights of association and belief.

The amendments are worth a look too…you know, the other ones that aren’t the Second Amendment. But the above are the original guaranteed freedoms in a nutshell. Anything else is hyperbole.

So, back to Bush. The current administration talks a lot about freedom and protecting democracy lately, but what does that mean? Does it have anything to do with the above? Do we only condone the right to criticize and remove leaders we don't agree with if they're not American Republicans? Or is it just jingoistic crap that’s really about protecting our bank accounts, our Bibles and our guns from some anonymous They? And for fcuk's sake, who's minding the store????

I'm a patriot because I exercise the hard-won right to public debate. I get bent out of shape about these things because I love my homeland, bumps and all. And it annoys me that some self-proclaimed arbiters of American patriotism don’t get that.

And done. Must find my inhaler. :?
 
#20
Brian

Maybe I should have posted Joni Mitchell's Woodstock

or maybe Woody Guthrie's 'This Land is your Land'

perhaps Aaron Copeland's 'Appalachian Spring'...

what's your favorite genres?...er ahh 'cup of tea'?

(Sid Vicious? Dave Clark? Dixie Chicks? Green Day? Jadakiss?)


We aim to please!!

TankiesYank: Rave on!
 

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