1 RGJ Shoulder Titles?

#1
Sister found a 43rd&52nd Shoulder title whilst out walking near Pewsey.

I know the 43rd and 52nd where later the Ox and Bucks LI, later the 1st Bn RGJ.

I take it 1 RGJ wore this as a shoulder title or does it pre-date the RGJ?
 
#2
On 1/4/1958, following the 1957 Defence Review, The Oxfordshire and Buckinghamshire Light Infantry was transferred from the Light Infantry Brigade to The Green Jacket Brigade, & was renamed as the 1st Green Jackets.
On 7/11/1958 the other two regiments of the Brigade were renamed as The 2nd Green Jackets & The 3rd Green Jackets::

1st Green Jackets (43rd & 52nd)
2nd Green Jackets, The King's Royal Rifle Corps
3rd Green Jackets, The Rifle Brigade

Wearing the Brigade cap badge of a Maltese Cross bearing a bugle horn, within a laurel wreath & with crown above, the three regiments were distinguished by their shoulder titles –“43rd/52nd”, “KRRC” & “RB”.
 
#3
TheSpecialOne said:
pre-dates RGJ. Not sure about the Green Jacket Brigade though as the Bn's were still using their original titles.
As far as I can recall, 43&52nd black metal epaulette title was worn from the time , 1957,when Ox & Bucks became 1 Greenjackets until the large regiment (RGJ) was formed in 1966

The other epaulette titles in the brigade were KRRC (2GJ) and RB (3rd)
but all three regiments also wore, on BDs, the cloth shoulder title Greenjackets.

If my memory is at fault, I'm sure someone will correct!
 
#5
After the formation of the 3 Bns of the Royal Green Jackets, the shoulder titles worn were RGJ and not the Ox and Bucks, KRRC and RB.

However, the Bns did hold some of the history of the old Regts, and I specifically asked to be posted to 2 RGJ (later 1 RGJ) because of it's history as KRRC.

Unfortunately all gone now. 300 years of history down the shitter.

Good luck to The Rifles.

Once a Rfn always a Rfn
 
#6
My memory may well be at fault, :(

Can any old & bold from the mafia tell me if the cloth shoulder title was GREENJACKETS or GREEN JACKETS?
 
#8
Tawahi-50 said:
TheSpecialOne said:
pre-dates RGJ. Not sure about the Green Jacket Brigade though as the Bn's were still using their original titles.
As far as I can recall, 43&52nd black metal epaulette title was worn from the time , 1957,when Ox & Bucks became 1 Greenjackets until the large regiment (RGJ) was formed in 1966

The other epaulette titles in the brigade were KRRC (2GJ) and RB (3rd)
but all three regiments also wore, on BDs, the cloth shoulder title Greenjackets.

If my memory is at fault, I'm sure someone will correct!
This is a black metal badge. Does this mean it is pre-1966?

Thanks for all the replies.
 
#9
I did hear a story that for a short while after the prescribed date in 1966 2RGJ still wore their KRRC shoulder titles and rank badges but were brought into line when they were posted to BAOR from the Far East. It might be a myth but I did hear it from a few people who were around at that time.
 
#10
Crunchie said:
Tawahi-50 said:
TheSpecialOne said:
pre-dates RGJ. Not sure about the Green Jacket Brigade though as the Bn's were still using their original titles.
As far as I can recall, 43&52nd black metal epaulette title was worn from the time , 1957,when Ox & Bucks became 1 Greenjackets until the large regiment (RGJ) was formed in 1966

The other epaulette titles in the brigade were KRRC (2GJ) and RB (3rd)
but all three regiments also wore, on BDs, the cloth shoulder title Greenjackets.

If my memory is at fault, I'm sure someone will correct!
This is a black metal badge. Does this mean it is pre-1966?

Thanks for all the replies.
Yes it does, ran from 1958 to 1966- well to be pedantic, until 31 Dec 1965 :) ;

Thank goodness the Wiki entry on the RBs agrees with my memory of the spelling (Greenjackets- one word) Thought my memory was going!

Wiki The Rifle Bridge said:
In 1958 the Rifle Brigade was absorbed into the Greenjackets Brigade. It was called the 3rd Greenjackets, The Rifle Brigade. Though the brigade wore a Greenjackets shoulder flash each individual unit wore its own epaulette badge, the Rifle Brigade wore a black RB, the 2nd wore KRRC, and the 1st wore 43/52. Each regiment kept its own coloured NCO's stripes and marksmanship badges.The rifle regiments serving under Wellington who were attached to the Prince of Orange's staff wore an orange ribbon on their shakos so they wouldn't be shot at from the Prince of Orange's men on the day.
 
#11
Tawahi-50 said:
My memory may well be at fault, :(

Can any old & bold from the mafia tell me if the cloth shoulder title was GREENJACKETS or GREEN JACKETS?
There was a photo on the Daily telegraph about a month ago relating to the 20th Anniversary of the opening of the Berlin Wall and accompanying it was a photo from 1961 when it was being erected. It featured a L/Cpl. of 2nd Green Jackets in BD's and the cloth shoulder flash was quite distinctive and read "Green Jackets". He still wore the old metal KRRC shoulder titles though. In fact the term "Greenjackets" ie. one word, was never used in the Regiment.
 
#12
camman said:
I did hear a story that for a short while after the prescribed date in 1966 2RGJ still wore their KRRC shoulder titles and rank badges but were brought into line when they were posted to BAOR from the Far East. It might be a myth but I did hear it from a few people who were around at that time.
Don't know, but 2RGJ held on to the (dead sexy) black cap badge for a long time. Finally went the way of all flesh when we reduced from 3 Bns to 2 in Jul 92.
 
#13
camman said:
I did hear a story that for a short while after the prescribed date in 1966 2RGJ still wore their KRRC shoulder titles and rank badges but were brought into line when they were posted to BAOR from the Far East. It might be a myth but I did hear it from a few people who were around at that time.
I think you'll find that the old Regimental references on uniforms and elsewhere were abolished within the new regiment in 1968, the thinking from the Black Mafia being that as reductions in battalions were in the offing it would not be fair if all references to just one of the antecedent regiments were to disappear leaving the others still in use. To that end at some point in 1968 the title "2nd Bn. The Royal Green Jackets (The Kings Royal Rifle Corps) was discontinued and the Bn. was henceforth to be know only as "2nd Bn. The Royal Green Jackets". I believe that it was at that point that the red piping around the rank stripes and badges was finally discontinued in the 2nd and was then only to be seen on the Bugle Majors full dress uniform (the great Colin "Nosher" Green of course!) I remember seeing a C/Sgts 2 Dress jacket hanging up in a stores in Catterick in 1974 still with the old badges on it, and a rubber-stamp in "A" Coy office still bearing the old KRRC sub-title was still in use years later to the annoyance of Regimental Headquarters.
I'm delighted to see that The Rifles now wear red-piping around the collar on their No.1's and that Silver has replaced Gold on the stripes and badges, much more Rifleman-like! :wink: :wink:
 
#14
Sundog said:
all gone now. 300 years of history down the shitter.
A bit unfair I think. People would have been saying exactly the same thing in 1966. It's just a process of change and we have to get used to it. Meanwhile RIFLES goes from strength to strength: as Swift and Bold as ever.
 
#15
Jaeger said:
camman said:
I did hear a story that for a short while after the prescribed date in 1966 2RGJ still wore their KRRC shoulder titles and rank badges but were brought into line when they were posted to BAOR from the Far East. It might be a myth but I did hear it from a few people who were around at that time.
I think you'll find that the old Regimental references on uniforms and elsewhere were abolished within the new regiment in 1968, the thinking from the Black Mafia being that as reductions in battalions were in the offing it would not be fair if all references to just one of the antecedent regiments were to disappear leaving the others still in use. To that end at some point in 1968 the title "2nd Bn. The Royal Green Jackets (The Kings Royal Rifle Corps) was discontinued and the Bn. was henceforth to be know only as "2nd Bn. The Royal Green Jackets". I believe that it was at that point that the red piping around the rank stripes and badges was finally discontinued in the 2nd and was then only to be seen on the Bugle Majors full dress uniform (the great Colin "Nosher" Green of course!) I remember seeing a C/Sgts 2 Dress jacket hanging up in a stores in Catterick in 1974 still with the old badges on it, and a rubber-stamp in "A" Coy office still bearing the old KRRC sub-title was still in use years later to the annoyance of Regimental Headquarters.
I'm delighted to see that The Rifles now wear red-piping around the collar on their No.1's and that Silver has replaced Gold on the stripes and badges, much more Rifleman-like! :wink: :wink:
Jaeger I have to say that the number 1 dress of The Rifles has brought a smile to the faces of my dad and many of his fellow 2RGJ/KRRC cohorts. All have said that apart from the rivet in the hat it is very 60th like. :wink:
 
#16
Jaeger said:
Tawahi-50 said:
My memory may well be at fault, :(

Can any old & bold from the mafia tell me if the cloth shoulder title was GREENJACKETS or GREEN JACKETS?
There was a photo on the Daily telegraph about a month ago relating to the 20th Anniversary of the opening of the Berlin Wall and accompanying it was a photo from 1961 when it was being erected. It featured a L/Cpl. of 2nd Green Jackets in BD's and the cloth shoulder flash was quite distinctive and read "Green Jackets". He still wore the old metal KRRC shoulder titles though. In fact the term "Greenjackets" ie. one word, was never used in the Regiment.
I have since seen the shoulder title and yes, you are right, there was a gap.
But it's a bit strange as the spelling Green Jackets/Greenjackets appeared to be interchangable during the existance of the Green Jackets Brigade.
Here's the page of the London Gazette where a certain Maj Kitson is listed as 3rd Greenjackets, The Rifle Brigade.

Gen Kitson


A search of the London Gazette brings up a number of references to Greenjackets but there are also references to Green Jackets. You wouldn't expect the LG to be creative with regtl titles but to take the info straight from the WO/MOD


It's odd for a couple of reasons;
1. The army is usually very specific on the spelling of regimental titles.
2. If an error, it wouldn't be a logical error- ie if you heard the term Green Jackets, you wouldn't be likely to spell it as one word in error.

Strange one!
 
#17
camman said:
I did hear a story that for a short while after the prescribed date in 1966 2RGJ still wore their KRRC shoulder titles and rank badges but were brought into line when they were posted to BAOR from the Far East. It might be a myth but I did hear it from a few people who were around at that time.
The shoulder title bit is a myth. 2RGJ stopped wearing the KRRC metal title and adopted the RGJ + Bugle metal title from 1st Jan 66 but for most of the battalion the new titles weren't worn until the following May when the bn returned to Penang from their last Borneo tour.

I think the origin of the myth is explained by Jaeger's reference to the title of the regiment and the subsequent loss of the subordinate titles of the three battalions.
 
#18
camman said:
Jaeger said:
camman said:
I did hear a story that for a short while after the prescribed date in 1966 2RGJ still wore their KRRC shoulder titles and rank badges but were brought into line when they were posted to BAOR from the Far East. It might be a myth but I did hear it from a few people who were around at that time.
I think you'll find that the old Regimental references on uniforms and elsewhere were abolished within the new regiment in 1968, the thinking from the Black Mafia being that as reductions in battalions were in the offing it would not be fair if all references to just one of the antecedent regiments were to disappear leaving the others still in use. To that end at some point in 1968 the title "2nd Bn. The Royal Green Jackets (The Kings Royal Rifle Corps) was discontinued and the Bn. was henceforth to be know only as "2nd Bn. The Royal Green Jackets". I believe that it was at that point that the red piping around the rank stripes and badges was finally discontinued in the 2nd and was then only to be seen on the Bugle Majors full dress uniform (the great Colin "Nosher" Green of course!) I remember seeing a C/Sgts 2 Dress jacket hanging up in a stores in Catterick in 1974 still with the old badges on it, and a rubber-stamp in "A" Coy office still bearing the old KRRC sub-title was still in use years later to the annoyance of Regimental Headquarters.
I'm delighted to see that The Rifles now wear red-piping around the collar on their No.1's and that Silver has replaced Gold on the stripes and badges, much more Rifleman-like! :wink: :wink:
Jaeger I have to say that the number 1 dress of The Rifles has brought a smile to the faces of my dad and many of his fellow 2RGJ/KRRC cohorts. All have said that apart from the rivet in the hat it is very 60th like. :wink:
Indeed! They could have gone a little bit further of course, I would have liked to have seen the adoption of red edging to the collar on No. 2 Dress as the 2nd KEO Goorkhas (sister Regt. to the 60th) used to wear, and I think the stripes should have been the existing Black/Green working Dress ones on a red surround, oh and a big thick F..off Black Lanyard!! I like what thye've done with mess kit for Sgts and WO's too. :D
 
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