03/02/11 - off Duty PSNI officer opens fire during robbery - 1 dead

#1
Seems a scrote thought holding up a petrol station with a knife would be easy.......FAIL.


BBC News - Man shot dead by off-duty officer in Belfast


So... should other British forces allow its armed officers to carry off duty also?

They are competent - (Ok, trained).

Only get paid for duty hours but provide Armed presence out of hours also.

Would help provide a greater response for the predicted Mumbai style attack that the Police Head Honchos keep dropping hints about also.


thoughts?
 
#2
Oh, God - more ammunition (no pun intended) for the NRA to claim that an armed populace will reduce violent crime!

Still, fair play - I bet he didn't expect that when he demanded his 20 B&H and a tenner from the till...
 
#4
footpad, this was a one off incident where the copper was in the right place and the correct time.

If we have every ARO stooging around tooled up we increase the risk of some sort Menedez scenario. Mumbai scenario? So the terrorist starts brassing up the joint, and every undercover copper in the area pulls his piece? Cue carnage. Unless they are also going to carry some form of visible identifying markings. ie a netball vest with police written on it to be quickly pulled on.
 
B

Boozy

Guest
#5
The PSNI carry weapons off duty as a matter of personal protection from the likes of dissident republicans...not to foil crimes such as armed robberies. This incident was coincidental. Most PSNI men I know don't even carry their weapon around with them off-duty.

Police on the mainland UK do just fine without weapons, have generally no need to protect their own homes from terrorists and if a situation can be resolved without loss of life then that can only be a good thing.
 
#6
By the time all the enquiries are over this officer will be an old man,more than likely charged with manslaughter,and fired.This didnot happen in London,where they seem to be able to overcome such difficulties with little trouble.It will end in tears for this chap,however I think he was right,a few more dead armed robbers,the less cost to the tax payer.Let the bleeding hearts bleat all they want.
 
#7
Any time now bouncebananna/knocknee will appear with some strange mutterings about Kents firearms range and some bloke called Fuller.

I imagine Paddy the chav must have been somewhat surprised as he tried to get the cashier to cough up only to end up getting malleted by an off duty peeler.
 
#8
Good drills from the PSNI copper. In a perfect world he'd get tea, medals and a promotion. But the best we can hope for is he gets to keep his job.
 
#9
footpad, this was a one off incident where the copper was in the right place and the correct time.

If we have every ARO stooging around tooled up we increase the risk of some sort Menedez scenario. Mumbai scenario? So the terrorist starts brassing up the joint, and every undercover copper in the area pulls his piece? Cue carnage. Unless they are also going to carry some form of visible identifying markings. ie a netball vest with police written on it to be quickly pulled on.
I agree, wasn't there an incident in NI when a soldier out of uniform grabbed his rifle and ran out of his accomodation to assist in an incident, and got shot by his own unit? Can't remember all the details, sorry.

Well done to the policeman, of course.
 
#10
The PSNI carry weapons off duty as a matter of personal protection from the likes of dissident republicans...not to foil crimes such as armed robberies. This incident was coincidental. Most PSNI men I know don't even carry their weapon around with them off-duty.

Police on the mainland UK do just fine without weapons, have generally no need to protect their own homes from terrorists and if a situation can be resolved without loss of life then that can only be a good thing.
If they are regular officers, then they're negligent if, (circumstances allowing) they don't carry their firearm when not in uniform given the current climate.

Local news is reporting that eyewitnesses claim the would be armed robber had a knife to the throat of the shop assistant and was given several warnings to drop his weapon by the off duty peeler.

There are no happy endings to this story.
 
#11
If they are regular officers, then they're negligent if, (circumstances allowing) they don't carry their firearm when not in uniform given the current climate.

Local news is reporting that eyewitnesses claim the would be armed robber had a knife to the throat of the shop assistant and was given several warnings to drop his weapon by the off duty peeler.


There are no happy endings to this story.
We are better off by having one scrotbag less to deal with ,and it will cost the public purse nothing to dibble him under,whereas,if he went to prison it would cost a fortune to keep him in relitive luxury.
 
#12
feel sorry for the officer being put in a postion like that by some little shit
 
#13
We are better off by having one scrotbag less to deal with ,and it will cost the public purse nothing to dibble him under,whereas,if he went to prison it would cost a fortune to keep him in relitive luxury.
Prison for this type of armed robbery? Seriously? Sadly in my experience doesn't happen too often. More like a suspended sentence and a fine that will never be paid.
On the flip side - The officer in question will spend the foreseeable future having their life made a misery, and will carry this incident for the rest of their days. To the detriment of their career and quite possibly their own conscience.
The public purse will be lighter by the time the legal vultures have taken their cut from the inevitable compo claims from witnesses.
The public purse will be further lightened by the inevitable solicitors fees from legal aid, taken by the deceased family members in future criminal/civil proceedings.
And attitudes toward the police in the local area take a nosedive. Just take a look at the comments on the UTV website.
It's Northern Ireland remember? It's always the fault of the police.
 
#14
If they are regular officers, then they're negligent if, (circumstances allowing) they don't carry their firearm when not in uniform given the current climate.

Local news is reporting that eyewitnesses claim the would be armed robber had a knife to the throat of the shop assistant and was given several warnings to drop his weapon by the off duty peeler.

There are no happy endings to this story.
Untermench shot dead by police officer as he held a knife to the throat of an innocent person? If this ending was any happier I'd have to change my boxers.

Just a shame the officer is going to go through a lot of shit.
 
#15
Hi CF,

Actually my first thoughts about about having AROs armed off duty, in a Mumbai style attack, was not their presence on scene immediately; but the fact that when it all goes to hell in a hand cart the incident commander will be screaming for reserves. How long would it take for an off duty ARO to get in to the Nick, draw his weapon, receive a brief, get on to the scene? Would it not be beneficial for the Officer to make his way directly to the ICP (this could even be in another division/Force area)? Given that this style of attack will most likely be over several locations not every on duty ARO from surrounding areas will be made available to the Incident Commander I'm sure, so the the quicker he can get his "third line" the better.

As for having AROs armed off duty? Apart from the above scenario I don't think it is needed, the amount of incidents where an off duty officer was present must be extremely low. I do disagree with your Menezes conclusion though: The fact that those Officers were on duty and receiving briefings about that particular threat over an extended time meant that when those officers reached the platform it was only going to end badly. Conversely, I think, if an off duty Officer was present his whole mindset would have been different.

PS: "So the terrorist starts brassing up the joint, and every undercover copper in the area pulls his piece? Cue carnage." really?? I don't think you thought that one through :)

Boozy,
The PSNI carry weapons off duty as a matter of personal protection
Totally agree, I would further add it is the main reason any Officer at any time carries a weapon
 

skid2

LE
Book Reviewer
#16
Judicial system in this country is completely f**ked they put a single mother in jail for shoplifting a pair of £10 jeans (Ms Skid2 took me to this denim boutique to get a sunday best pair of 501s. £83.00. How I laughed and there's a mother in jail for lifting a pair which cost a tenner) Burglaries and car theft most of the scrotes are out on bail with a string of convictions behind them. Well done the peeler for a change, he's in for a bad time for no doubt assassinating a well loved member of the community. One of those characters which our fine city seems to breed.

On a lighter note VCP outside Holywood, chap in Beemer decides he's too good for this and decides to tear through the block. Recently transferred type steps up and sticks three through the rear window. Sgts, Inspectors and everyone else with an opinion steps up to let him know that 'This is Holywood and We don't do that sort of thing here'
 
#17
Well thers not many people in the Albertbridge road shedding tears over it that I know for sure. Ok not everybody likes the PSNI but at least there is someone here who is upholding the honourable traditions of the RUC.
 
#18
These are the type of scumbags that live in my area and I'm quite happy the cop decided to shoot him :) As said above by skid, they have a string of convictions behind them and if they do get prosecuted, they'll be off to one of their holiday camps for a few weeks before being let out to commit the same crime again. I had a search but I doubt there is any videos of a JDC or some prisons around the North but I know people who have been in them and they get treated like royalty, gym/TV/PS3 etc..

I do feel sorry for the lass who got 3 months for lifting a £10 pair of jeans, if the judge was this harsh with some of the scumbags who end up in court, Northern Ireland as a whole would be a nicer place.

And Holywood? Don't make me laugh!! I was going with a girl from Holywood and they had their own batch of scumbags running around and I'm not sure if this has changed but the cop station closes at 8pm? @.@
 
#19
Well done the peeler for a change, he's in for a bad time for no doubt assassinating a well loved member of the community. One of those characters which our fine city seems to breed.
Cue adornments of flowers and facebook tributes to the 'loveable rogue' who never meant any harm to anyone and was always misunderstood.
 

skid2

LE
Book Reviewer
#20
Pad. Probably long before your time but there was a YOC up in west belfast. I can't for the life of me remember the name of the place but every so often when someone was scooped (usually for being a pain in the arse). ID'd, the response was 'detained'.
'Detained, I'm sitting looking at him'
Apparently they could walk in and out of the place, physical security in the way of fences was non existent. But the the place was run by priests so it probably not an easy option.
 

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