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£200-million announced for vital improvements to troops' accommodation

Ah SLAM blocks and pissed *********.
Remember the first one being opened in Nelson - and some drunks decided to punch out all the plasterboard walls along a couple of corridors, then the lifts had to be taken out of service after becoming multi floor toilets.
The problem was that all new builds over the last 15-16 years are called 'SLAM'. The ones developed by DIO and Balfour Beatty were traditional build with pre-assembled bathrooms, and cleverly designed furniture etc. However much of the Army PFI (and some of the Navy) is very poorly built demountable structures, with no blast protection, amongst other things.
 
The problem was that all new builds over the last 15-16 years are called 'SLAM'. The ones developed by DIO and Balfour Beatty were traditional build with pre-assembled bathrooms, and cleverly designed furniture etc. However much of the Army PFI (and some of the Navy) is very poorly built demountable structures, with no blast protection, amongst other things.


Them's the badgers, based on cruise ship cabins, all plug in and play, except, on ships they unplug and replace them every few years, nor expect them to last 15 years
 
If you are going to spout shite, at least be slightly accurate.

The failed track-and-trace app cost GBP 11.8 million.

Still a huge amount of money wasted, but 0.18% of what you claim.

Other sources are quoting £10 Billion total cost for the App, back-end, ~25,000 calll centre staff etc

Plus it's illegal
 

Cruthin1967

Old-Salt
Especially when it's offset by the numbers we're going to force to live out.

The strategy is basically that. With AR never having to be housed at taxpayers' expense being the optimum. Sooner or later this constant under-funding is going to result in a catastrophe.
 
I wonder how much of the money,after going through the levels of management and subcontracting, will actually end up being spent on tangible results.
 
1982, we were chuffed when the crew room got carpeted and we did not have to buff the floor on shift change, been told this week the crew room will lose its capet as a hard mop able floor will help defeat covid@.@
 

morsk

LE
4,000 new bed-sapces at an average cost of £50,000/bedspace over a 20 year maintenance period. At least that was the cost of SLAM accommodation 15 years ago before it got axed in favour of 'cheaper' (and ineffibly crappier) PFI 'Travelodge' builds, some of which are already reaching the end of their design lives.
It costs more like £80k per bed space for Z type these days, according to a very wise QM type of my acquaintance
 
It costs more like £80k per bed space for Z type these days, according to a very wise QM type of my acquaintance
It may depend on where that was and what was included, it’s high for construction and low for full lifetime running costs based on the SLA calculator.

For somewhere such as PAC PFI you’re paying for construction and maintenance / lifecycle for the full PFI period, and for elsewhere you’re paying for construction and must take into account maintenance and lifecycle.
 

morsk

LE
It may depend on where that was and what was included, it’s high for construction and low for full lifetime running costs based on the SLA calculator.

For somewhere such as PAC PFI you’re paying for construction and maintenance / lifecycle for the full PFI period, and for elsewhere you’re paying for construction and must take into account maintenance and lifecycle.
That is the cost of construction per unit. Maintenance is extra!
 
Them's the badgers, based on cruise ship cabins, all plug in and play, except, on ships they unplug and replace them every few years, nor expect them to last 15 years
Or more precisely, cruise ships are built via modular construction methods (AKA prefabricated buildings) which are well known for post war reconstruction but have been around for centuries.
It would be more accurate to state that defence modular construction programmes are based on the Department for Educations schools construction programme.

True SLAM with Balfour Beatty came with construction plus 7 years of building maintenance, PAC PFI is a 30 year contract, so if a building lasts only 15 years then they will have to replace it within the contract. (That’s why the PAC PFI contract to do any work comes at a higher price for both initial work and continued maintenance / life cycle replacement), I don’t know what the arrangement was for PFI Colchester but that was underway more than 15 years ago.


Is it better to have an estate that’s a mix of Victorian and second hand RAF WW2 construction and to have a government that is surprised that money needs to be spent on it following 40+ years of slashing infrastructure or replacements that are predicted to last 15 years telling government that they need to be maintained and replaced at a later date?
Are Defence needs in 15 years going to be the same as today? Would they be able to have something more suitable for their needs then than Defence has today with an 80 year old estate?
 
Is it better to have an estate that’s a mix of Victorian and second hand RAF WW2 construction and to have a government that is surprised that money needs to be spent on it following 40+ years of slashing infrastructure or replacements that are predicted to last 15 years telling government that they need to be maintained and replaced at a later date?
Are Defence needs in 15 years going to be the same as today? Would they be able to have something more suitable for their needs then than Defence has today with an 80 year old estate?
I would expect a mix to work reasonably well provided the maintenance balls aren't dropped. Some older buildings work perfectly well - for a lot of things four walls, a floor and celing are all that's needed, but obviuously some new build will alwys be needed especially for more specialist functions.
 
I would expect a mix to work reasonably well provided the maintenance balls aren't dropped. Some older buildings work perfectly well - for a lot of things four walls, a floor and celing are all that's needed, but obviuously some new build will alwys be needed especially for more specialist functions.
The British Army was very critical in the late 1930s about the good quality of RAF barrack accommodation - often built in the modernist style - particularly focussing on the presence of central heating, hot water in ablutions and the amount of space per bedspace. The RAF designed and built them with blast protection in mind (indeed most typical H blocks have shelters ('refuges') underneath them with emergency exits outside the collapse and debris zone - long covered over in most cases; concrete ceiling slabs to limit the effect of incediaries and so forth). The RAF also anticipated a massive expansion of numbers and the blocks ended up accommodating at least double the original numbers of bedspaces.

As an aside, the Army was also very critical of the neo-Georgian married quarters for senior officer, still seen on the square on older stations. They were specifically built with a room for servant(s), a necessity given that RAF stations were built out in the wops.

No maintenance was carried out on these blocks during the war (apart from repairing battle damage) and a post-war study by the Works Branch validated decisions 10 years earlier to build them out of superior materials and fittings.

Apart from the traditional-build Balfour-Beatty SLAM, I can't see many of the blcoks built in the last 15 years suriving 80-90 years and still being fit for purpose. The business case for building them solidly and spaciously in the 1930s was particularly sound. There is now a perpetual bow-wave of both capital investment and maintenance costs that will never be addressed.
 
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