£1bn defence shortfall.

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by stinker, Oct 28, 2007.

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  1. Covered in the paper today;

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/10/28/ntroops128.xml

    "The shortfall will leave servicemen without Apache gunships, Land Rovers and Chinook transport helicopters, according to experts

    Future weapons projects, including the new generation of Astute nuclear submarines and even the Eurofighter, are also at risk.

    The Navy has already been forced to "mothball" all Type 42 destroyers and several Type 22 frigates to save money.

    Now, defence experts will warn in a report to MPs that up to half of the Navy's warships will have to be withdrawn from service due to the poor defence budget."


    So the budget is increased but the cost of operations is to come from this money. Looks like the government has thought this through again.
     
  2. Apparently their are up to six Apache Helicopters that will never fly again (according to a Mucka) how true this is i can't confirm. the reason is " they have had to many parts stripped from them for spare parts for Afghanistan. The Helicopters cost as much as 36 - 38million each! The blokes need the moneyand fast by al accounts of the forces.
     
  3. I am a little surprised though not totally so.

    Perhaps Broon expects to get his arse kicked in the next election and is leaving this mess for the next lot in (coupled with a housing crash and perhaps a world economic correction).
     
  4. Only a billion? That must be the back hander the Government paid EDS last year for JPA and DII :twisted:
     
  5. Spot on I fear, and there I'm sure lies the true answer why he didn’t go to the country..... While I would never want it to go to ratship, but if it's going to happen I hope Brown is firmly in the hot seat when it does so the blame rightly falls where it's due and he hasn’t a snowballs chance in hell of wriggling out of it.

    Brown and Blair have, IMHO along with past and to some instances present cabinet members ruined this country with their poor governance and fiscal control so much so that a one way trip through traitors gate and short spell in the tower before moving on to a very brief introduction to the use of an axe would not be inappropriate.

    Of course, in our present - cuddly, 'PC' aww bless, they didn’t mean it society - that would never happen.....

    Shame, there was a lot to be said for the medieval way of sorting really crap politicians other than the polls.
     
  6. Seconded - just as long as I get the job with the black hood and the big fcuk off axe! :twisted:

    Although I suspect I'd have to get up fcuking early to be at the front of the Q...
     
  7. I'd be happy to just blunt the axe a bit.
     
  8. perhaps it it time to put the MOD accounts in the hands of a private accountants instead of civil servants!!!!

    Is that being unfair to the low down civil servants??? someone other than just Brown needs to be held accountable for this.

    If I was that crap at managing my money I would be fired

    Regards


    Duncan
     
  9. the_boy_syrup

    the_boy_syrup LE Book Reviewer

    Brown has controlled the money for the last 10 years
    What makes anyone think now he is PM he will go on a spending spree?
    Darling may be the chancellor but you can bet you b0llacks it's all going through Broon
    Everyone has seen taxes increase whilst the NHS ,Police,Forces etc have been stripped back to the bare bones
    Exept of course his 600 odd mates in parliment who can award themselves a nice pay,pension and expence package
    The 86 Million quid they spent on stamps,envelopes and milage claims would buy a few Landrovers or a couple of Apaches
    I'm not suprised at the comment about the Apaches it's happend for years in the RAF I remember my brother telling me before Kosovo they were stripping Chinook hanger queens for spares
     
  10. its seems to me that this is short term repairs, this cannot last, to "mothball" all Type 42 destroyers and several Type 22 frigates to save money cannot go on for the long term, same with the RAF, it needs spares and service time,

    so straight forward solution really, either pull out of Helic and telic or pump the required amount of money into the armed forces needed..........

    Regards

    Duncan
     
  11. A shortfall in the budget for defence ? Under the premiership of 'Bottler' Brown ? Can this really be classified as NEWS ?! If so, then I announce that Queen Anne is dead!
     
  12. dockers

    dockers Old-Salt Book Reviewer

    Dunc0936

    Can't let your comment about someone being responsible go without comment. It, generally, is not the fault of the civil servant (many of whom are qualified accountants)on the ground. Many civil servants know what needs to be done. Their advice is often ignored by those higher up the chain, both mil and cs, due to dogma or political direction. Its the fault of not enough money in the first place and being subject to a system that does not reward good governance nor planning for more than 1 year.

    If there is blame in the CS then it should be directed at the Senior Civil Servants.
     
  13. I agree with you there, I would find it very hard to believe that mere civil servants were to blame, they do not make policy, and work very hard at their job.... I was just wanted to try and find out whole is to blame!!!!

    Im still learning on this forum, and have only really started to take an interest in politics in the last few months, so some times do go off on a rant and need to be slapped down..... It just just really frustrate me when it things like this happens and politicians do not seem to have a back bone these days and in lots of cases are only interested in their own agenda

    Regards

    Duncan
     
  14. "The Navy has already been forced to "mothball" all Type 42 destroyers and several Type 22 frigates to save money."

    This is total utter b*llocks. The Navy has not mothballed all its Type 42 destroyers, there are 8 left and plenty are currently deployed, such as HMS Southampton in the Falklands. The 4 T22's remaining are also (currently) still active. The only RN ship in mothballs officially is HMS Invincible, held at 6 months notice for sea.
     
  15. dockers

    dockers Old-Salt Book Reviewer

    Duncan

    The devil is always in the detail. Defence doesn't have a high profile for a CS career. One of its basic problems is that in the upper levels of the Civil Service, there are few that have served and few that have spent any reasonable amount of time working with front line or training establishments. Therefore the knowledge of the impact of that their decisions have is negligable(sp). There is too much focus on process and not enough on people.

    Its barking!

    Edited to add: Tango Six articulates this attitude well in the Nimrod thread.