Originally Posted by Onetap

I was an admirer of the small metal gun. A simple question here for all the old gits. How was the SMG actually used in your unit?

My experience was that it was only ever fired at SAA contests, that is single shot, standing at 25 yards.

The sights were set for 100 or 200 yards, so did anyone actually get to fire it at 200 yards? Or even 100?

Did anyone fire it from any position other than standing, i.e., prone, kneeling, from a trench? Did anyone ever get to fire it on automatic? Did anyone ever do the energetic leaping around stuff between standing and kneeling, that we did with SLRs, while using the SMG, or shoot a falling plate contest with one? Now that would have been interesting.

Were there any standing orders against such activities involving SMGs and live rounds? It isn’t hard to anticipate some dullard tripping whilst having a full auto ND, taking out the entire range party.

The 25 yards range seems to have given rise to the myth that the 9mm bullet fell harmlessly to the ground at 30 yards and/or was incapable of penetrating wet tissue paper. Sterling’s first SMG, the Mk 1 Lanchester, had adjustable sights that apparently went up to (a madly optimistic) 700 yards; I’d suspect that the sight was nicked from some Lee Enfield, rather than being purpose made.

Similarly, the shooting team resented the open bolt design that meant there was a steel billet rattling down the tube between squeezing the trigger and firing. The thing was designed for the military equivalent of a bar fight, not for Bisley.

On exercises, since there was no 9mm blank issued, an SMG was as welcome as a concrete 66mm.

So, your recollections please. Anyone mentioning wet blankets will have sharp objects shoved into a wax voodoo image of their wrinkled bodies.

I used it leaping around on a CQCR at warcop, also fired on automatic whilst with RIR depot. Most time used it on single shot with shooting team. Officers and S/nco carried it cos it was lighter small than an SLR

Originally Posted by old_bloke

Not "Oh the donkeys plonker"?

How did you know that was my nickname?

So am I right in thinking the Sterling fired from a closed bolt and the Sten an open bolt?

Also if hitting power was so poor I guess its the same for the 9mm MP5?

Looking at the Belize photos with the correct hold (i.e. not holding the mag) how long before the perforated sleeve around the barrel got too hot to hold?

Originally Posted by Cyclic

So am I right in thinking the Sterling fired from a closed bolt and the Sten an open bolt?

Also if hitting power was so poor I guess its the same for the 9mm MP5?

Nope. The firing pin in the SMG was a fixed pin. In fact, a protusion on the front of the block. Straight forward fire and blowback principle.

Originally Posted by polar69

I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure the SMG was issued to women and sgts and above in the RAF.

Correct ... including all officers except aircrew.


Competitions ... we also used to do SMG Tiles at Bisley, so it must have been in Pam 20. SMG on bench, retire 50 yards [we used yards back then]. Teams of 4 then advance, load and engage a set of 10 clays on sticks at 25 yards. First team with all 10 down [or the most tiles after the time limit] went on to the next knock-out round.

Originally Posted by old_bloke

At Bisley one trick was to zero the foresight so as it came up to the groin area of the Fig 11 (between the darker legs is a lighter patch) the rounds hit the center mass.

Otherwise known as "zero to the knee-patch", and much used by the SLR guys as well!!

I used one -and carried the bugger - when sigs pln. That, plus A41 and all the kit. Fired it many times on range and enjoyed it. Accurate when the shooter can see and point. We also had to classify with SLR, no matter what weapon was issued as personal.

For anyone who was with 3RGJ in Celle, the tour when we did Libya, they may recall the A coy Commander, Major T******-E***. Nice bloke but no logistic sense. We deployed on an emergency tour to NI and as his radio po I was lumbered with SMG, Baton round gun, A41, big wooden stick, small round metal shield and a bloody Very pistol. I could barely walk let alone fight.

Re the sword ( bayonet to you redcoats) it was issued and carried, useful for opening tins but not much else. And those days, in the 60s and early 70s, no shortage of ammo, either ball or blank. Fired full auto, repetition and in all positions, but I was glad to get my elephant gun back.

It was my personal weapon in Aden too, but when I was seconded to a training team with the Federal National Guard at Al Anad, and then Capbadge I binned it and took an Arab .303.

Originally Posted by rgjbloke

Nope. The firing pin in the SMG was a fixed pin. In fact, a protusion on the front of the block. Straight forward fire and blowback principle.

Sterlings did, in the last few years of production, make a closed bolt version, a Mk 8 (or something) which was sold to some police forces. The reason for compromising the accuracy slightly, with the bog-standard open-bolt military version was that a chambered round is liable to cook-off after sustained firing due to the heat of the barrel. However, it was still more accurate than you might expect, for something that had a 1 lb steel lump bouncing around before firing.

They also did a closed-bolt version with a very long barrel (16"?) for the US civilian market. The RUC version was open-bolt but the trigger group was modified to single-shot only.

Originally Posted by Onetap

Sterlings did, in the last few years of production, make a closed bolt version, a Mk 8 (or something) which was sold to some police forces. The reason for compromising the accuracy slightly, with the bog-standard open-bolt military version was that a chambered round is liable to cook-off after sustained firing due to the heat of the barrel. However, it was still more accurate than you might expect, for something that had a 1 lb steel lump bouncing around before firing.

They also did a closed-bolt version with a very long barrel (16"?) for the US civilian market. The RUC version was open-bolt but the trigger group was modified to single-shot only.

I didn't know that but of course, my experience is confined to those in use in the infantry in the seventies.

Originally Posted by Onetap

Sterlings did, in the last few years of production, make a closed bolt version, a Mk 8 (or something) which was sold to some police forces. The reason for compromising the accuracy slightly, with the bog-standard open-bolt military version was that a chambered round is liable to cook-off after sustained firing due to the heat of the barrel. However, it was still more accurate than you might expect, for something that had a 1 lb steel lump bouncing around before firing.

They also did a closed-bolt version with a very long barrel (16"?) for the US civilian market. The RUC version was open-bolt but the trigger group was modified to single-shot only.

I thought I`d seen a closed bolt one , If I remember right there was a UK civvy version which was classed as a s/a pistol , disappeared due to the ban.