Originally Posted by classified

Para-dox is correct. The pictured weapon is NOT an LM7. The picture of the LM308MWS is the civilian version of the LM7. Indeed, I hear that the LM7 is the new rifle - designation L129A1. It uses a gas tube, as per AR10 and Stoner designs, but with what reports indicate to be a very accurate stainless barrel.........

The LM308MWS picture also depicts the 20" barrel, this is not the configuration that we will be getting, there are other differences as well.

The HK417 was in a trial against the LM7 (not L7 as we all know that is the GPMG!) and it was found wanting, that is to say the LM7 was better and indeed, more accurate, and so I heard were other rifles in the trial also.

I've heard that the prices were not a million miles away from each other either, the original pic is neither the LM7 or the HK417.

For those who have an obvious agenda against any other rifle apart from the 417 would do well to learn more about the oposition before deciding that H&K produce the best rifles on the planet, in this instance they were beaten fair and square by a lesser known manufacturer (LM&T) but non the less experienced in producing very well made, high quality rifles.

Originally Posted by Pillager

The trial troops asked for more than a telescopic butt!
and the decision was made prior to the trial reports!

Utter rubbish! Spouting an opinion based on poor information!

Originally Posted by Pillager

A non stainless barrel and full auto being their main two concerns.
Concessions to the L7 failings extended to the addition of a gangster grip to make it more fightable in CQB - how a cqb rifle can work without auto is something Im not party too. Im simple!

Full auto was not a requirement. And the requirement was set by the CUSTOMER, not the MOD who just did the trial and bought it. So if full auto is needed, then the user got the requirement wrong! The barrel is a match barrel, and out shot the 417. If you see this as a failing, then I’m not sure what you measure success by!

The whole idea of a free floating picatinny rail system is so that gangsta grips, lasers, tac lights etc can be added!

The LM7 failings, as you put it were trialled and assessed along side all other competitors. The LM7 beat all the others in a trial, and with all other considerations, was selected.

I do understand people have favourites, and the 417 was considered "ally" but slagging off a rifle that offers so much to the tom on the ground based on nothing but blind prejudice is barking mad.

So its an SLR then; only more expensive. Lets get the old boys out of stores (Dear God we've not thrown them away.....)

er no the SLR was and is not a precision rifle you can make them into a precision rifle but that is going to be very expensive.
plus we gave them to kids in africa tonys population control for africa fund

Originally Posted by petergriffen

Originally Posted by misterp

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Marine_Corps_Squad_Advanced_Marksman_Rifle

its clearly this, i read before it think arrse that it was loaned from the usmc

Yeah on balance it fit's the pic better...but the one I posted is (I'm 99%) the new Brit DMR.....although the guy who told me, is not happy.

my bold....what does DMR stand for?

Designated Marksman Rifle.

Originally Posted by DGSx

Designated Marksman Rifle.

Ty for the swift reply, and please excuse my discombobulation.

Originally Posted by Taff49

Originally Posted by DGSx

Designated Marksman Rifle.

Ty for the swift reply, and please excuse my discombobulation.

How can you be discombobulated by an acronym as simple as DMR thicko!

Originally Posted by DH24

Originally Posted by misterp

doesnt make sense to me,

i think you'll find the mod have bought hk 417s it doesnt make sense for them to buy a completely new weapon of an american company.

most ar 10 types can take an telescopic butt

I know most AR varients can take a telescopic but (after all its just a choice of what you stick on the buffer/recoil spring tube) and that HK417s have been procured...but apparently only for issue to certain people. The LM thingy above is apparently meant to be a more general issue thing and while it would be nice to give everyone who needs one a HK417 I imagine the cost would be prohibitive.

And since when has making sense and the MoD gone hand in hand?

Anyway, I'm just a spotterish civvy with some hearsay info is all, winding neck in

I think you will find that in this instance the MoD has seen sense and brought the best weapon, this was proven in the trials that took place. Feel free to wait 30 years for the report to be made public and you will be able to see for yourself!

Also, why would the MoD waste the good tax payers money on a inferior bit of kit in order to give everyone 417's. They have been proven to be substandard when competed against the likes of the L129A1 LM7.

I think you will find in time that the 417 is not the "ally" bit of kit that you are all thinking/hoping...after all how many posters on this thread have actually seen either rifle, let alone fired them?

As has been said, fully automatic capability was not asked for so it was not supplied, and what would the point of a fully automatic 7.62mm rifle be anyway when it is supposed to be a "SharpShooter" for accurate shooting of Terry Taliban at distances up to 800m?

If the user wanted a 7.62mm combat assault rifle then the user should have asked for one, if they had I am sure the MoD would have been able to find the best one out there, they are not a stupid as you think.

Many will realise that in this day and age, you just don't get a master of all senarios when it comes to weapons.

I agree with KingOfKings, having fired both the HK417 & the LM7. At 800m the LM7 group size is tighter than that of the HK417.