Other contries equipment cock-ups.

**Speedy** · 10-07-2009, 13:23

Following on from the RB44 thread, we can't be the only county who has procured total lemons? Admittedly, we have had a few in recent decades, but there must be other countries out there with vehicles that never moved, rifles that didn't work as advertised and clothing that left a lot to be desired. Can anyone think of any to make us all feel a little better?

**tattybadger** · 10-07-2009, 13:24

Sudan?

**Mr_Deputy** · 10-07-2009, 13:30

French Lebel rifle - design flaws. Some target shooters now say this is rubbish but I think its problems lay in combat use so I think it is true to say. (No jokes about a white flag always popping out of it - I'm not much of a poilu basher!)

Germany - Prussian & Bavarian officers. (Mad and couldn't even bomb Hitler from 5 feet away.)

**Stooge** · 10-07-2009, 13:36

Well, didn't the americans have massive problems with their M16s when they were first introduced in Vietnam? (I believe that due to poor manufacturing, some of the rifles wouldn't fire).

**Gheluvelt** · 10-07-2009, 13:39

Canadian Ross Rifles in WW1. Very accurate at long range but prone to jamming and several other fairly serious problems.

**Darthspud** · 10-07-2009, 13:44

Originally Posted by Stooge

Well, didn't the americans have massive problems with their M16s when they were first introduced in Vietnam? (I believe that due to poor manufacturing, some of the rifles wouldn't fire).

Not quite right there matey
Rifle was fine, the bean counters changed the composition of the propellant in the rounds and this meant that
one) it didn't have the same punch/killing range
two) the round had room behind the head for moisture to pool and foul the interior
three) it was rushed into service with inadequate training on maintenance for the troops

**HE117** · 10-07-2009, 13:50

Originally Posted by Mr_Deputy

French Lebel rifle - design flaws. Some target shooters now say this is rubbish but I think its problems lay in combat use so I think it is true to say. (No jokes about a white flag always popping out of it - I'm not much of a poilu basher!)

Germany - Prussian & Bavarian officers. (Mad and couldn't even bomb Hitler from 5 feet away.)

Given that the Lebel was the first smokeless magazine rifle on the block, I think we can cut it some slack. The Foreign Legion were using them right up to the 1920s so can't have been that much of a dog...

The Canadian Ross was a brilliant target rifle, but was never going to be squaddie proof in the Trenches in WW 1. There were so many design changes to this one they ran out of stars and hashes in the marking scheme..

The Italian Carcano - (along with the Iytie "Red Devil" grenade) is however well out of the bottom of the design barrel. How/why Oswald chose to use one of these to slot Kennedy is one of life's little mysteries...

I would also differentiate between Prussian and Bavarian officers...

Prussian Officers are generally nails. I remember going to meet a Bundeswehr officer of Prussian extraction - He did not have a chair in his office as he considered that sitting down spoilt the creases in his trousers.He did all his staff work (which was impeccable) standing at a small shelf...

Bavarians are 100% lunatics. Pi$$ed most of the time, like building fantastic castles and are completely unintelligable to the rest of the German speaking world...

**Speedy** · 10-07-2009, 13:50

It didn't help the M16 that after it's introduction rumour spread that it didn't need oiling either!

**Rumpelstiltskin** · 10-07-2009, 13:56

The USMC's Osprey's been getting some flak, though the jarheads seem happy enough with it...

**Stooge** · 10-07-2009, 13:57

Originally Posted by Speedy

It didn't help the M16 that after it's introduction rumour spread that it didn't need oiling either!

Well just looked it up (after my previous innacuracy, should have used google), and apparently the troops initially weren't issued cleaning kits because of its supposed ease of maintenance. Madness.

**tattybadger** · 10-07-2009, 14:00

Has any other country bought SA80, or AFV 432?

**Speedy** · 10-07-2009, 14:01

I'll bet they thought all their birthdays came at once. Up until the first stoppage that is.

**diehard57** · 10-07-2009, 14:06

Originally Posted by Speedy

It didn't help the M16 that after it's introduction rumour spread that it didn't need oiling either!

I thought they took it a step further saying that the rifle was 'self cleaning' due to the original design of the AR-15 having a chrome lined barrel and receiver. Also, didn't we use the M16 before the septics? I think they were issued to 'them' for use in Borneo and that the USAF had them before the US Army.

**muhandis89** · 10-07-2009, 14:13

I think that we prevailed upon Botswana to buy some SA 80?

**Gungythree** · 10-07-2009, 14:18

Originally Posted by diehard57

Originally Posted by Speedy

It didn't help the M16 that after it's introduction rumour spread that it didn't need oiling either!

I thought they took it a step further saying that the rifle was 'self cleaning' due to the original design of the AR-15 having a chrome lined barrel and receiver. Also, didn't we use the M16 before the septics? I think they were issued to 'them' for use in Borneo and that the USAF had them before the US Army.

It was the AR-15 in Borneo, used by SF and Patrol coys