Thread: BOWMAN - BCIP 5 Upgrade Confirmed

BOWMAN
Better
Off
With
Map
And
Nokia..;)

Originally Posted by dance_with_the_devil

BOWMAN
Better
Off
With
Map
And
Nokia..;)

FFS! Have you been embalmed for the past 6 years? Thick Cnut!

Okay, I'll start by saying I'm not a comms person, but I'll also mention that I know a lot of the guys involved in the Bowman project. So after I've said this I'll fire a couple of thoughts around and see what come of them:

Radios - the make and models of the hardware was defined by MOD in the contract, you hate it, the designers hate it, the integrators hate it...live with it.

VHF comms - there are specific and fundamental reasons why the VHF comms in theatre are flakey, I won't go into them here, for obvious reasons, but they are fundamental rules of physics, not the radio.

This is not Clansman - As others have said, if you want a VHF radio where you press a button and talk to someone go buy a walkie talke off the shelf in Maplin and dig out your BATCO sheets. The MOD asked for a different system, I'm not saying Bowman is the ideal system but it is a different system, if you accept this and start using it as it was intended (which hopefully was correctly defined) then it will benefit you....if you don't then you might as well stick pins in your eyes.

Just my thoughts and understanding, I am wiling to be shot down but I'm in that sort of mood this morning.

S_R

Originally Posted by Sympathetic_Reaction

As others have said, if you want a VHF radio where you press a button and talk to someone go buy a walkie talke off the shelf in Maplin and dig out your BATCO sheets.

Being able to press a button and talk to someone on a radio would be nice though. It is kind of why we have radios, after all.

Originally Posted by jimmys_best_mate

Originally Posted by Sympathetic_Reaction

As others have said, if you want a VHF radio where you press a button and talk to someone go buy a walkie talke off the shelf in Maplin and dig out your BATCO sheets.

Being able to press a button and talk to someone on a radio would be nice though. It is kind of why we have radios, after all.

Errr........if you learn to set the thing up, instead of asking for everything on a plate, you can press a button and talk on it.

You can even pass data on it as well.

FFS! GET OFF YOUR ARRSES AND LEARN THE FCUKING THING

RANT ENDS!

Originally Posted by DigitalGeek

Originally Posted by jimmys_best_mate

Originally Posted by Sympathetic_Reaction

As others have said, if you want a VHF radio where you press a button and talk to someone go buy a walkie talke off the shelf in Maplin and dig out your BATCO sheets.

Being able to press a button and talk to someone on a radio would be nice though. It is kind of why we have radios, after all.

Errr........if you learn to set the thing up, instead of asking for everything on a plate, you can press a button and talk on it.

You can even pass data on it as well.

FFS! GET OFF YOUR ARRSES AND LEARN THE FCUKING THING

RANT ENDS!

As DigitalGeek said.....

I should have clarified - if you want a VHF radio where all you can do is press a button and talk to someone -

If you want something that does that and more it's going to be more complicated.

Saying that it took me about 15 minutes and the PAM to teach myself how to fill crypto, set a frequency and pass voice across both HF and VHF on Bowman...it's really not that difficult.

S_R

Not long ago, I watched a Class 1 CS Op trying to set up two manpack radios (VHF I think) and test them. It took him a good 45 minutes to do it.

This fella is Bowman trained, he is a Royal Signals Operator, he is a Class One tradesman and he's done a three year posting at Bowman Trials or System Support Team (I forget which now).

If someone who has that level of experience and training on the kit can struggle for that long to fill two radios and talk between them, then there is clearly either a problem with the complexity of the kit or the reliability of the kit.

Bowman may well be able to do far more than Clansman could. It may well have loads of gucci bells and whistles that make staff officers hard. There's absolutely no point pretending that it's an easy system to use or that it's without problems though.

All communications systems are going to have plus and minus points, all new systems are going to have teething troubles and certain areas and terrains are always going to affect certain frequencies.

For a system that has been in development for two decades and for the amount of money that has been paid for it, I believe that the system has far more problems that it really should.

I've heard that there may be more trouble with the funding of the run out of new BOWMAN equip and ancillaries. Has anyone heard anything about that or is it the normal, "no money in the pot, wait for next year" cry ?

Originally Posted by jimmys_best_mate

Not long ago, I watched a Class 1 CS Op trying to set up two manpack radios (VHF I think) and test them. It took him a good 45 minutes to do it.

This fella is Bowman trained, he is a Royal Signals Operator, he is a Class One tradesman and he's done a three year posting at Bowman Trials or System Support Team (I forget which now).

If someone who has that level of experience and training on the kit can struggle for that long to fill two radios and talk between them, then there is clearly either a problem with the complexity of the kit or the reliability of the kit.

Sorry mate, this RSI sounds like a twonk to me. It doesn't take 45 mins to set up Bowman. If you are as thick as two short planks it might, but it shouldn't take a class 1. Maybe your int is duff?

That said, my Uncle worked on Bowman for a good 10 years with the MOD, he's an absolute idiot and so I honestly believe the entire system is his fault and for that I'd like to apologise.

On a separate subject, hopefully the wide scale use of PRINCE2 across the MOD now will make this sort of co-ck-up impossible.

Originally Posted by jimmys_best_mate

Not long ago, I watched a Class 1 CS Op trying to set up two manpack radios (VHF I think) and test them. It took him a good 45 minutes to do it.

This fella is Bowman trained, he is a Royal Signals Operator, he is a Class One tradesman and he's done a three year posting at Bowman Trials or System Support Team (I forget which now).

My Bold, that I’l be your problem then

He should of went to a proper signaller :D :D

Originally Posted by Mr Happy

Sorry mate, this RSI sounds like a twonk to me. It doesn't take 45 mins to set up Bowman. If you are as thick as two short planks it might, but it shouldn't take a class 1. Maybe your int is duff?

It's not duff, Mr H., because I know him well so I know his history/quals and I sat and watched him trying to get the thing working!

I'm aware that it shouldn't take that long (I've done the Bowman Advanced Signaller course myself) but there were that many problems with the kit that it did. There were problems with the two fill guns both deciding to drop their fill, problems with getting the radios to accept the fills when we got the crypto sorted and problems with the ancils.

If a system can produce that many problems in one simple task for someone who is experienced with it, what is it going to do for a young lad in the infantry who's just grabbed a radio off an injured patrol signaller?

I know things have moved on since Clansman (which I miss dearly because my job (Tech) is utter shite since we got rid of it. There's something I never thought I'd say!) and that radios are more than just a box to talk to someone else a few miles away these days, but when it gets so complicated that you cannot just pick up a radio and use the basic functions without a training course and a precis thicker than the glacis plate of a Chally 2, maybe it's a little too complicated?

Originally Posted by CAARPS

My Bold, that I’l be your problem then

He should of went to a proper signaller :D :D

:D

FFS! Here, if you want something simple that works here................................have it!



Now ask yourself a question.

Will the above equipment:

Allow me to talk securely?
Allow me to transmit Voice and Data?
Allow me to inform my higher formation where I am automatically?
Allow me to create overlays?
Allow me to create and pass electronic messages securely?
Allow me to set up alarms and alerts?

I could go on.

You people need to take a good look at yourselves. If you can't manage it hand your bedding in.

Originally Posted by DigitalGeek

FFS! Here, if you want something simple that works here................................have it!



Now ask yourself a question.

Will the above equipment:

Allow me to talk securely?
Allow me to transmit Voice and Data?
Allow me to inform my higher formation where I am automatically?
Allow me to create overlays?
Allow me to create and pass electronic messages securely?
Allow me to set up alarms and alerts?

I could go on.

You people need to take a good look at yourselves. If you can't manage it hand your bedding in.

So got on the board at GD did we???

Well I didnt get on the INT CORPS board did I!

Originally Posted by DigitalGeek

Well I didnt get on the INT CORPS board did I!

If I had my way, you'd be on a water board ya haemasex!! :D