ARmy Rumour SErvice

Originally Posted by Pigshyt_Freeman

It ought to be noted that despite all the hoo-ha about 'assault rifles' and 'automatic weapons', the gats involved in incidents like Columbine, Batman etc are invariably just a semi-auto rifle with black plastic furniture. They're not 'automatic' or 'assault rifles' (having no selective fire option), they just look like them.

Personally, if I wanted to brass-up a cinema I'd go for a couple of semi-auto shotguns with big tube mags and SG cartridges.

This is pedantic quibbling, the correct US legal term is assault weapon and it's an entirely fair designation, these pieces of equipment where designed for high firepower combat, the mass slaughter of men.

These aren't Walted up civilian weapons as you suggest, they are full dress military weapons, some of which with a a very minor bit of home gun smithing can have auto mode restored, many are actually issued to police forces.

Some are as tactically able as the SLR was and a lot on here woud contend that semi-auto battle rifle was a superior weapon for a profesional to the full auto SA80 that replaced it or any of the AK family. Lacking a spray and pray option isn't even much of a disadvantage, especially when it comes to mowing down panicking innocent punters as a certain Norwegian demonstrated, using the same weapon the RUC often carried as an answer to the assault rifles of PIRA. A design with similarities to the old M14 but in 5.56mm, not a great rifle but it was regarded as rather more comforting than a full auto Sterling SMG as I recall.

A tactical shotgun is also highly lethal, but at least buckshot lacks the casualty multiplying penetration of 5.56mm. They are used by police and folk defending their homes with some sense of their neighbors safety for precisely this reason. Most are, slow to reload, heat up quickly, have a fair bit of recoil and the ammunition is much heavier.

When you absolutely positively gotta kill every motherfucker in the room, frag grenades excepted best choose a millitary rifle with a large capacity detachable magazine and calmly pick your double taps.

What sort of asshole uses a hundred round drum though defeats me.

RT doing a 2 piece on this at the moment featuring the pro and against 2nd amendment debates. the lobby's claim that you cant legislate what is a constitutional right.

the NRA claims that an armed student could have stopped the 2003 fella from shooting half his college was disproved in scenarios where the armed student generally made a fudge of it and got shot asap. in most scenarios unless the armed civvy is a psychopath who can switch his conscience off or an ex serviceman who has seen the elephant they have little chance of pulling it off.

the swiss model was very good with a machine gun in every home which kept crime down for decades and liberal gun ownership laws with a range in every town or village, recently though they are reviewing it due to the high number of suicides with official weapons..

the best story on RT was a guy who was having trouble making a hole in his wall for a plug and screw so used his .22 which went through the wall an into his wifes chest. Darwinism at its best.

Originally Posted by 123

Eh, if there were no guns, no armed citizenry, then there would be none of these shootings.

This is a terrible argument.

because Criminals are such well known obeyers of the Law.....

Perhaps fewer Americans would be killed by guns if they presented smaller targets? Just a thought.

Originally Posted by Charm_City

Perhaps fewer Americans would be killed by guns if they presented smaller targets? Just a thought.

There was a self-defence shooting in the USA where the armed citizen shot a great fat whelker like the one in the picture; the Expert Witness had a very hard time (he succeeded in the end) in getting the armed civvy off the murder charge. Said whelker had a knife and the armed civvy had to shoot the whelker three times with buckshot rounds, because the fat stopped the buckshot so effectively. (I defy anyone to watch that YouTube video without a grin on their face).

Originally Posted by redshift

So you can be trusted but you cannot trust others with weapons? Is that what you're saying? There will always be loonies, guns or no guns.

That's not what I was saying at all mate. The difference between me and ordinary member of the public is that I've been trained, extensively, in the use of my firearm and with many different scenarios thrown in. I also wear a uniform, have a working knowledge of the law, particularly with regards to use of force, and have other means at my disposal to deal with a situation.

If you read my post you'll see that I'm undecided on this one. Perhaps I dwell too much on the negatives?

Edited to add.

I've got no issue with law abiding members of the public (even back in Blighty) owning firearms for hunting, sport, and home defense. But I don't really think carrying firearms is a good option. I wouldn't carry my service pistol on my days off, so why do people (here in Canada anaway) feel the need?


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Originally Posted by 123

Eh, if there were no guns, no armed citizenry, then there would be none of these shootings.

This is a terrible argument.

But not as terrible as yours. How much has gun crime gone down since Dunblane?

Originally Posted by alib

This is pedantic quibbling, the correct US legal term is assault weapon and it's an entirely fair designation, these pieces of equipment where designed for high firepower combat, the mass slaughter of men.

Fuck me try as I might i cant find the mass slaughter of men as part of Eugene Stoners patent application or of a DoD directive, or request. nor have I ever heard the term high firepower quantified in the military.

Originally Posted by alib

These aren't Walted up civilian weapons as you suggest, they are full dress military weapons, some of which with a a very minor bit of home gun smithing can have auto mode restored, many are actually issued to police forces.

And you know this How?
to convert an AR-15 to full auto would require a Full Auto Bolt as the Semi Auto bolt is cut away- no bottom rear to trip the auto sear disconnector during forward movement. You would require a dissconnector sear and spring, pin, Full auto trigger, full auto sear, full auto hammer, full auto selector- All NFA restricted parts. Thats not to mention having to drill a hole through the lower reciever at a precise point. Oh and thats with a Lower that is the same dimensions as the M16. Many have thicker inner walls which will not accept M16 Parts and or use different diameter selector and pins which do not allow for the Automatic parts to be fitted.

Originally Posted by alib

Some are as tactically able as the SLR was and a lot on here woud contend that semi-auto battle rifle was a superior weapon for a profesional to the full auto SA80 that replaced it or any of the AK family.

Quantify that? how is the SLR anything other than any other rifle. it is no deathray, or finger of god.

Originally Posted by alib

When you absolutely positively gotta kill every motherfucker in the room, frag grenades excepted best choose a millitary rifle with a large capacity detachable magazine and calmly pick your double taps.

or block the exits and use Gasoline like in Gotheburg Sweden to kill 63 burn 200, or the Bronx in the happy land club to kill 87, no guns involved. Upstairs lounge in new Orleans 32 dead....

More efficient, cheaper, unregulated, better casualty producing method

Originally Posted by alib

What sort of asshole uses a hundred round drum though defeats me.

The C-Mag is notorious for jamming, ergo why the US Mil dropped it