ARmy Rumour SErvice

**Monty417** · 15-01-2012, 14:13

Originally Posted by eodmatt

You may be right about it being an emotive issue, a moral thing tied up with the Christian ethos of respect for the dead.

I am not talking about you now, but there seems to be an element of vicarious outrage about the whole thing, emanating from the hand wringers.

Frankly I am surprised that no one has so far posted the "how would you feel if it was your mum (mom)'s dead body they were pissing on" agony line. Or may be they did, I stopped reading the thread last night when I got to be too pissed to see straight.

Strange how the lefty hand wringers in our country have nothing to say about the filth that piss on our War Memorials.

**jumpinjarhead** · 15-01-2012, 15:03

[QUOTE=Monty417;4171776]Strange how the lefty hand wringers in our country have nothing to say about the filth that piss on our War Memorials.[/QUOTE

Fair point. In my own view, it is not the act (pissing) or even the intent (hatred) that is the operative aspect in the instance (and other like it) that is the subject of this thread. Obviously those who desecrate war memorials cannot be expected to act as disciplined professional military forces are since the former are by definition, well, scumbags of the lowest order.

Rather what is upsetting for me it is the apparent (they have not been found guilty as yet) breach of clear regulations, the lack of military discipline (especially abhorrent to me if Marines are involved) and the potential impact on our enemy and the Afghan people that could undermine much of our sacrifice to date.

**Monty417** · 15-01-2012, 15:28

[QUOTE=jumpinjarhead;4171845]

Originally Posted by Monty417

Strange how the lefty hand wringers in our country have nothing to say about the filth that piss on our War Memorials.[/QUOTE

Fair point. In my own view, it is not the act (pissing) or even the intent (hatred) that is the operative aspect in the instance (and other like it) that is the subject of this thread. Obviously those who desecrate war memorials cannot be expected to act as disciplined professional military forces are since the former are by definition, well, scumbags of the lowest order.

Rather what is upsetting for me it is the apparent (they have not been found guilty as yet) breach of clear regulations, the lack of military discipline (especially abhorrent to me if Marines are involved) and the potential impact on our enemy and the Afghan people that could undermine much of our sacrifice to date.

In a nutshell.

It's not a thing I would do, condone, or would have allowed. But other than that, I remain totally indifferent to the 'desecration' side of it.

**StJohnguy** · 15-01-2012, 18:36

Here maybe Dollsteeth, but not where it matters & THAT'S the problem.

**stabtoreg** · 15-01-2012, 18:58

Originally Posted by Dollsteeth

Tbf JJH your own experience makes you more then qualified to comment on this, war doesn't really change just the shitty field it's being held on.

I think a couple of years ago I might have been irritated by what the lads did, now though I actually don't care, I know from experience that a wholly ridiculous act can seem entirely justified when the red mist has set in/fog of war/blood is up (pick your cliche)
I myself after being in contact with the dirty little shits for days on end, forever chasing shadows lumbered with tonnes of kit (whilst they sprint around in skirts or simply hide in plain sight, using our ROE against us) and having seen friends hurt, on coming across them, live or dead have wanted to do some seriously fucked up and entirely illegal things to them, the situation and very small things probably being the things that prevented them.

I don't condone it but I wouldn't presume to know the lads mental state at the time or what they had been through up to that moment, for example I know the marine units in sangin have had a rough ride of it, there will be many on here (myself included) that can sympathise with being stuck in that shothole, all I will say in echoeing other posters is that stuff like this has gone on since soldiers first squared of against each other, the crime is getting caught and the bloke who posted it on YouTube deserves as large a punishment as the pissing party.

Apologies for rambling non paragraphed post

Surely the ability to keep the red mist clear is the hallmark of the Proffesional soldier? Or at least of the Proffesional military leader.

Also I find it interesting that these were snipers. Surely that is the most dispassionate of all trades. They do not tend to do their killing at close quarters where a red must is most likely to descend.

I agree that the biggest crime is getting caught, however anyone that allows themselves to be filmed doing something like that is asking for it.

**stabtoreg** · 15-01-2012, 18:59

Originally Posted by Monty417

Strange how the lefty hand wringers in our country have nothing to say about the filth that piss on our War Memorials.

They actually generally do.

**stabtoreg** · 15-01-2012, 19:04

[QUOTE=jumpinjarhead;4171845]

Originally Posted by Monty417

Strange how the lefty hand wringers in our country have nothing to say about the filth that piss on our War Memorials.[/QUOTE

Rather what is upsetting for me it is the apparent (they have not been found guilty as yet) breach of clear regulations, the lack of military discipline (especially abhorrent to me if Marines are involved) and the potential impact on our enemy and the Afghan people that could undermine much of our sacrifice to date.

This sums it up for me. It's just bad soldiering. Shows a huge lack of professionalism from what are supposed to be a unit with high standards.

This individual incident will fizzle and die soon, however it adds to the Taliban narrative about the status of ISAF troops in that country, and it's a hard enough job without doing their job for them.

**Dollsteeth** · 15-01-2012, 19:04

Originally Posted by stabtoreg

Surely the ability to keep the red mist clear is the hallmark of the Proffesional soldier? Or at least of the Proffesional military leader.

Also I find it interesting that these were snipers. Surely that is the most dispassionate of all trades. They do not tend to do their killing at close quarters where a red must is most likely to descend.

I agree that the biggest crime is getting caught, however anyone that allows themselves to be filmed doing something like that is asking for it.

The 360 battle and all that, our snipers work at platoon level, i would imagine theres do also,which would put them in the thick of it so to speak. At the end of the day soldiers are just normal people too, as i said before i cant comment on their mental state at the time however personally i would be more concerned if my blokes didnt get hacked off with the enemy at some point on a difficult tour. That being said its not an excuse for getting caught or filming it, it shows immense stupidity on their behalf more than anything else.