ARmy Rumour SErvice

Originally Posted by Bugsy

Originally Posted by crabtastic

Originally Posted by Bugsy

Crabtastic, I can’t really see what you’re hoping to achieve here. You did much the same number on Trip_Wire (a recognised Korean veteran) and now he very rarely posts, if at all.

It may very well be that you don’t agree with Jumpingjarhead’s politics, or his opinions on this or that, but surely that’s what a forum of this kind should be all about – and not trying to make a total monkey of any perceived “opponents”? It’s supposed to be about the exchange of ideas, remember?

I also don’t agree with a lot of JJ’s opinions, being a committed Socialist, but I believe that JJ has more than proved that he’s very intelligent, has an absolutely stunning shiteload of experience and (crucially) is open to discussion. In addition, he’s a (or should be) very welcome barometer of the general lie of the (political) land in the US.

Lay off a length, mucker. Take ward. JJ’s not your enemy! We all should be working together on the very real problems we have in/on this world of ours.

Just a thought (but youse might want to consider real Socialism as a solution).

MsG

Everyone is entited to their own opinion, but not their own facts. -Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Ah, c'mon, Crabtastic! I'd really have expected much better from you. That's a total bum-out response and you know it! So what are these "facts" that you seem to be the sole recipient of?

I'm not trying to disparage you in any way here, mucker, since I happen to agree with very much of what you say (politically), but you seem to have embarked on a singular theme to do/dumb down any contribution from a Septic. I might be wrong in that assumption, but it's just that it seems that way to me So why?

MsG

Hammer>>>>Nailhead You got it right

Don't always agree with you but do this time.

Originally Posted by Bugsy

Ah, c'mon, Crabtastic! I'd really have expected much better from you. That's a total bum-out response and you know it! So what are these "facts" that you seem to be the sole recipient of?

Bugsy, I started out on this thread pointing out that JJ was misrepresenting the facts of the case. The teleprompters and podium were there because he was about to address the country on a policy matter, not to read My Pet Goat to a classroom of kids. I also conceded that Obama isn't the most spellbinding speaker when making off-the-cuff remarks. Those are the facts.

I'm not trying to disparage you in any way here, mucker, since I happen to agree with very much of what you say (politically), but you seem to have embarked on a singular theme to do/dumb down any contribution from a Septic. I might be wrong in that assumption, but it's just that it seems that way to me So why?

MsG

If I agree with people, then I'll stay silent. The point has already been made, so why should I labour it? (And yes, JJ does make valuable contributions and eminently sensible things too.) However, If I disagree with them, and nobody else is around to call them on it, I'll chime in.

The fact is, "mucker" is that it's a mistake to think that there is a singular "American" view on things. It's just that on this forum (and across the country in general) the right wing of the US political spectrum does a much better job of making more noise than anyone else- whether they're right or wrong.

Originally Posted by crabtastic

The fact is, "mucker" is that it's a mistake to think that there is a singular "American" view on things. It's just that on this forum (and across the country in general) the right wing of the US political spectrum does a much better job of making more noise than anyone else- whether they're right or wrong.

I believe you're doing a grave disservice to ARRSErs in general when you think that they'd fall for some simplistic Septic right-wing propaganda, Crabtastic. They might not be up on the very latest political developments in the US, but you have to remember that most ARRSErs are either ex or serving; meaning that they've had ample opportunity to develop their capacity to detect bullshit when it's served up - from the left or right wing. They're not so easily fooled, you know?

MsG

The opening post in this thread was a significant misrepresentation which, if Crabtastic hadn't supplied the link to Obama's speech, might well have been believed.

Crabtastic was absolutely correct to challenge the OP on this. Watching him then try to wriggle out of it was just a bonus. As a Brit who genuinely understands US politics, Crabtastic provides a valuable perspective on what seems to be (from this side of the pond) an extremely polarised political environment which is long on slogans and short on considered debate.

Moral of the story is, don't post bullshit on ARRSE (at least not outside the NAAFI) because one way or another you'll be found out.

Originally Posted by LISpace

The opening post in this thread was a significant misrepresentation which, if Crabtastic hadn't supplied the link to Obama's speech, might well have been believed.

Crabtastic was absolutely correct to challenge the OP on this. Watching him then try to wriggle out of it was just a bonus. As a Brit who genuinely understands US politics, Crabtastic provides a valuable perspective on what seems to be (from this side of the pond) an extremely polarised political environment which is long on slogans and short on considered debate.

Moral of the story is, don't post bullshit on ARRSE (at least not outside the NAAFI) because one way or another you'll be found out.

I can assure I am not wriggling in the least but marveling at the machinations to the contrary. Perhaps a lesson in hyperbolic humo(u)r is in order. I will also be quite happy to match the substance of your posts against mine and we will see where the BS falls. I also find it quite illuminating to scan archived posts during the evil Bush years and note the lack of the kind of total disclosure (even in such tongue in cheek posts as this was intended to be) that you and others are demanding of those of us who don't happen to march to the beat of your collective drums.

Originally Posted by jumpinjarhead

Originally Posted by crabtastic

OK, while still waiting for you to address the fact that your claim to start this thread was a fundamental misrepresentation of the facts of the case, I'm going to suggest that you are, in fact, stupid enough to contradict yourself in the very same thread.

For example, I have clearly stated elsewhere that I am a "conservative" and a "Christian," an originalist in terms of our Constitution and even one of those terroristic, robotic, violent, bigoted participants in various "tea parties" (or if it makes you feel better, "tea bagging") among other things.

This is not just my view (again trying to save some time for my critics who will say I am just a right wing ideologue etc.)

Now, excuse the use of capitals but I want to be as clear as possible. YOU ARE, BY DEFINITION AND BY YOUR OWN ADMISSION, A RIGHT WING IDEALOGUE.

This is all fine and dandy. It's a free society, you can be whatever you want to be, but don't p1ss in my pocket and tell me it's raining.

If you must label me, do me the courtesy of at least defining "right wing ideologue" then.

Still waiting....

Originally Posted by jumpinjarhead

Originally Posted by crabtastic

OK, while still waiting for you to address the fact that your claim to start this thread was a fundamental misrepresentation of the facts of the case, I'm going to suggest that you are, in fact, stupid enough to contradict yourself in the very same thread.

For example, I have clearly stated elsewhere that I am a "conservative" and a "Christian," an originalist in terms of our Constitution and even one of those terroristic, robotic, violent, bigoted participants in various "tea parties" (or if it makes you feel better, "tea bagging") among other things.

This is not just my view (again trying to save some time for my critics who will say I am just a right wing ideologue etc.)

Now, excuse the use of capitals but I want to be as clear as possible. YOU ARE, BY DEFINITION AND BY YOUR OWN ADMISSION, A RIGHT WING IDEALOGUE.

This is all fine and dandy. It's a free society, you can be whatever you want to be, but don't p1ss in my pocket and tell me it's raining.

If you must label me, do me the courtesy of at least defining "right wing ideologue" then.

Here's Wikipedia. See if anything rings a bell:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_politics

Originally Posted by crabtastic

Originally Posted by jumpinjarhead

Originally Posted by crabtastic

OK, while still waiting for you to address the fact that your claim to start this thread was a fundamental misrepresentation of the facts of the case, I'm going to suggest that you are, in fact, stupid enough to contradict yourself in the very same thread.

For example, I have clearly stated elsewhere that I am a "conservative" and a "Christian," an originalist in terms of our Constitution and even one of those terroristic, robotic, violent, bigoted participants in various "tea parties" (or if it makes you feel better, "tea bagging") among other things.

This is not just my view (again trying to save some time for my critics who will say I am just a right wing ideologue etc.)

Now, excuse the use of capitals but I want to be as clear as possible. YOU ARE, BY DEFINITION AND BY YOUR OWN ADMISSION, A RIGHT WING IDEALOGUE.

This is all fine and dandy. It's a free society, you can be whatever you want to be, but don't p1ss in my pocket and tell me it's raining.

If you must label me, do me the courtesy of at least defining "right wing ideologue" then.

Here's Wikipedia. See if anything rings a bell:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_politics

Interesting that you use Wiki--I seem to recall (and I well could be mistaken) that you spoke somewhat disparagingly of that as a source in other contexts and I would have thought that given the apparent upset that my posts seem to cause you that you would have your own definition. If you will point out the specifics that cause you to label me in such a fashion i will try to respond appropriately. I can give you a hint though that there is a good deal in that Wiki discourse with which I disagree and certainly which does not in any way accurately define who I am.

My sense is, and I hope I am wrong actually, is that you really are not interested in clarifying your pejoration. Regrettably, as I have pointed out in other threads where you and others have used similar tactics, you use epithets and gross generalizations in an apparent effort to marginalize those with whom you disagree rather than maintaining some level of rational discourse. To my memory, and if I am wrong you have my apology, I have not done the same but rather tried to discuss the issues rationally and calmly. Instead I am met with accusations of deceit, stupidity, bias, racism etc. ad nauseam. These same tactics are quite popular in America now, often among those who apparently feel some weakness in the substantive matters at issue.

Cheers.