Good Year for the beige List.

**machiavelli** · 11-09-2007, 10:25

Have just heard that this year is going to be a good year to be looked at for the beige due to exceptionally high numbers of the new LTOS officers signing off....

Anyone heard anything similar ?

**barbs** · 21-09-2007, 15:22

Originally Posted by machiavelli

Have just heard that this year is going to be a good year to be looked at for the beige due to exceptionally high numbers of the new LTOS officers signing off....

Anyone heard anything similar ?

I had heard that even if they hadn't signed off it was going to be a good year: the numbers of qualified ATOS officers and LTOS officers combined does not equal the total required. If you are qualified you are well in!

**Litotes** · 06-10-2007, 20:02

A recent MCM Div visit said, more or less, the same. A shortage of majors, reportedly.

Litotes

**Spanner** · 08-10-2007, 20:31

There is a shortage, and it's getting worse - no real stats from MCM divs seen, but from straw polls conducted, it's only getting worse. There's only so many LEs you can bring in to cover the gaps.

**GeneralMalaise** · 15-10-2007, 14:38

I can confirm this.

There is a shortage of Majors.

A higher than average number of PVR's (Capt & Maj) have created gaps within the Maj/SO2 bracket. Combine this with the additional appointments created by 2 double-medium operations and you'll begin to get the picture. Also, the 'air-gap' created by the ATOS/LTOS split has exacerbated the problem.

Good luck to those who run to the Beige List this year.

**pombsen-armchair-warrior** · 15-10-2007, 15:14

Originally Posted by GeneralMalaise

I

Combine this with the additional appointments created by 2 double-medium operations and you'll begin to get the picture.

Drifting off-thread I know but it has always amused me why delivery of the very output that we are supposedly configured for requires the creation of enormous quantities of 'additional' posts.

This begs the fol questions:

Do ops suffer from the 'Law of Grade Inflation (LOGI)' that states that the more AD and SO1 posts that exist in theatre, the more staff you need to create to justify them?

Is the current Army Orbat achievable if formations were to be sufficiently established and resourced and therefore, unless we cut the number of formations, or increase the size of the Army, the black economy is an enduring reality?

PAW

**barbs** · 16-10-2007, 09:58

Originally Posted by pombsen-armchair-warrior

Do ops suffer from the 'Law of Grade Inflation (LOGI)' that states that the more AD and SO1 posts that exist in theatre, the more staff you need to create to justify them?

Is the current Army Orbat achievable if formations were to be sufficiently established and resourced and therefore, unless we cut the number of formations, or increase the size of the Army, the black economy is an enduring reality?

1st question: yes! Additionally the fmn establishments are not robust enough to cope with the demands of COIN. Even so, the DSG for Op TELIC 1 needed significant enhancement to deal with a Div(-) in the field.

2nd question: without 3 Cdo Bde, 6 Div and 52 Bde we would be in a much worse situation: which is why, so I have heard, there is about to be another 2* HQ formed for operations.

**Danny_Dravot** · 22-10-2007, 08:48

Originally Posted by barbs

which is why, so I have heard, there is about to be another 2* HQ formed for operations.

6 Div?

Last i heard it's been put on hold as it sends out the wrong political message, ie. we are now 'overstretched' and need to rectify the situation by creating a new div HQ....

... i may be wrong, and the situation may have changed again since the last missive i saw?

**barbs** · 22-10-2007, 11:56

Originally Posted by goon_bde

Originally Posted by barbs

which is why, so I have heard, there is about to be another 2* HQ formed for operations.

6 Div?

Last i heard it's been put on hold as it sends out the wrong political message, ie. we are now 'overstretched' and need to rectify the situation by creating a new div HQ....

... i may be wrong, and the situation may have changed again since the last missive i saw?

No, another one beyond 6 Div. The last No 4 board appointed a lot of people to 6 Div, so I hope you are wrong. Likewise the new Bde HQ being formed.

**chimera** · 22-10-2007, 14:42

Originally Posted by barbs

Originally Posted by goon_bde

Originally Posted by barbs

which is why, so I have heard, there is about to be another 2* HQ formed for operations.

6 Div?

Last i heard it's been put on hold as it sends out the wrong political message, ie. we are now 'overstretched' and need to rectify the situation by creating a new div HQ....

... i may be wrong, and the situation may have changed again since the last missive i saw?

No, another one beyond 6 Div. The last No 4 board appointed a lot of people to 6 Div, so I hope you are wrong. Likewise the new Bde HQ being formed.

6 Div is the new one. The HQ currently in RC(S) is effectively 6 Div.

**barbs** · 22-10-2007, 17:11

Originally Posted by chimera

Originally Posted by barbs

Originally Posted by goon_bde

Originally Posted by barbs

which is why, so I have heard, there is about to be another 2* HQ formed for operations.

6 Div?

Last i heard it's been put on hold as it sends out the wrong political message, ie. we are now 'overstretched' and need to rectify the situation by creating a new div HQ....

... i may be wrong, and the situation may have changed again since the last missive i saw?

No, another one beyond 6 Div. The last No 4 board appointed a lot of people to 6 Div, so I hope you are wrong. Likewise the new Bde HQ being formed.

6 Div is the new one. The HQ currently in RC(S) is effectively 6 Div.

I know that RC(S) is going to become 6 Div, but there is a further requirement for a 2* operational HQ; because notwithstanding the production of 6 Div there still aren't enough Div HQs to meet the commitments.

**really?_fascinating** · 26-10-2007, 15:42

Isn't this what Hitler did - perhaps we should create a Kampfgruppe Darling or a Campbell Festung and let the politicians actually be in charge. Let's not prevent a lack of ACTUAL TROOPS prevent us forming more 2* HQs.

Question - does an organisation capable only of mounting single BG operations (ie not numbers of BGs manoeuvring in contact and alongside each other) need anything more than a 1* HQ?

What value does another level of command add?

**chocolate_frog** · 26-10-2007, 16:06

Lots of spaces for middle management?

**Dragstrip** · 28-10-2007, 12:16

Originally Posted by really?_fascinating

What value does another level of command add?

Good years for Biege Lists?

**The_Chancellor** · 28-10-2007, 16:20

Both TF11 and 6 Div are lifed, principally to cope with the uncertainty over force levels in 2 med scales and to provide within this 10 bdes (5 for TELIC and 5 for HERRICK), thereby creating a 2/12 year rotation and.....wait for it.....harmony.

Would'nt it be wonderful if it were so.
So the jobs created therein if filled with promoted beigers will just create a blockage further up the system when the life expires. Majs get pissed off when their apsirations are not met, but the system gets a few more years work out of you by promoting you. just enough to pass the buck to some AG's replacement. Cynical....never!