19 'Shite' Brigade

**chimera** · 17-04-2006, 10:27

Originally Posted by rabid spaniel

And there is me thinking that the cloud punchers provided the BM capability within the HQ.

And your point is.....???

**oldreme** · 20-04-2006, 09:14

Have any of you thrusters got an aide memoire or a link to one for a "Warning Order" like wot I had when I was a Rupert 15+ years ago?

**Interceptor** · 23-04-2006, 10:07

How's HQ 19 Lt Bde these days? I hear there has been quite a change in the dynamic of the place.

**Man_of_Bronze** · 25-04-2006, 21:09

Originally Posted by Outstanding

Originally Posted by The_Piece

I have heard rumours that 19 Lt Bde may as well be renamed 19 'Shite' Bde for a number of reasons (future roles etc). Is this true?

Also, I have heard that the quality threshold for the Bde staff will be lowered to take this into account and be equivalent to a Regional Bde. Is this also true? Am I better off applying for a post in 42 (NW) Bde?

Back on thread:

No, it will stay as 19 bde (the job it gets may be shite!)

Quality of staff will remain as low as it is now.

42(NW) Bde? - Nah too much Hunting, Shooting and Fishing there!

You are a c0ck of the highest order.

**Crazy_Legs** · 25-04-2006, 21:24

Originally Posted by Man_of_Bronze

Originally Posted by Outstanding

Originally Posted by The_Piece

I have heard rumours that 19 Lt Bde may as well be renamed 19 'Shite' Bde for a number of reasons (future roles etc). Is this true?

Also, I have heard that the quality threshold for the Bde staff will be lowered to take this into account and be equivalent to a Regional Bde. Is this also true? Am I better off applying for a post in 42 (NW) Bde?

Back on thread:

No, it will stay as 19 bde (the job it gets may be shite!)

Quality of staff will remain as low as it is now.

42(NW) Bde? - Nah too much Hunting, Shooting and Fishing there!

You are a c0ck of the highest order.

Couldn't agree more. Do you actually know anyone in 19X Outstanding? Some top notch individuals and an absolutely first rate Comd.

**Hard_vark** · 10-05-2006, 16:44

Originally Posted by chimera

Originally Posted by rabid spaniel

And there is me thinking that the cloud punchers provided the BM capability within the HQ.

And your point is.....???

I think he is saying that the loss of the AD will also mean the loss of the BM (3D type).

**Outstanding** · 10-05-2006, 19:19

Originally Posted by Crazy_Legs

Couldn't agree more. Do you actually know anyone in 19X Outstanding? Some top notch individuals and an absolutely first rate Comd.

It wont help you legs, you card is marked.

**chimera** · 13-05-2006, 10:26

Originally Posted by Hard_vark

Originally Posted by chimera

Originally Posted by rabid spaniel

And there is me thinking that the cloud punchers provided the BM capability within the HQ.

And your point is.....???

I think he is saying that the loss of the AD will also mean the loss of the BM (3D type).

mmm - maybe. But my point was that brigades don't have integral AD, only a CS regiment, so they never had it in the first place!

These young staff officers ... so much to learn eh??

**rabid spaniel** · 13-05-2006, 11:19

Originally Posted by chimera

Originally Posted by Hard_vark

Originally Posted by chimera

Originally Posted by rabid spaniel

And there is me thinking that the cloud punchers provided the BM capability within the HQ.

And your point is.....???

I think he is saying that the loss of the AD will also mean the loss of the BM (3D type).

mmm - maybe. But my point was that brigades don't have integral AD, only a CS regiment, so they never had it in the first place!

These young staff officers ... so much to learn eh??

AD is as integral to a Bde as the RA and Engr support. So where, may I ask, would an HQ be without any of them? Every manoeuvre Bde has AD - integral or not- to run the BM. Without them who does it?

**Man_of_Bronze** · 13-05-2006, 11:47

Originally Posted by rabid spaniel

Originally Posted by chimera

Originally Posted by Hard_vark

Originally Posted by chimera

Originally Posted by rabid spaniel

And there is me thinking that the cloud punchers provided the BM capability within the HQ.

And your point is.....???

I think he is saying that the loss of the AD will also mean the loss of the BM (3D type).

mmm - maybe. But my point was that brigades don't have integral AD, only a CS regiment, so they never had it in the first place!

These young staff officers ... so much to learn eh??

AD is as integral to a Bde as the RA and Engr support. So where, may I ask, would an HQ be without any of them? Every manoeuvre Bde has AD - integral or not- to run the BM. Without them who does it?

AD Assetts are Div assets and are only allocated to a Bde when required. Arty CS assetts, are alinged with Bdes, with the FPC and FOO parties OPCON, but with the guns remain OPCON to CRA and TACON to the Bde, and are part of a Div fireplan.

**Outstanding** · 13-05-2006, 13:53

Lets face it 19 Bde are going to stationed in N Ireland, they may deploy and if they do they will be assigned the right assets to do the job. Not too difficult a concept to grasp is it?

**Man_of_Bronze** · 13-05-2006, 14:11

Originally Posted by Outstanding

Lets face it 19 Bde are going to stationed in N Ireland, they may deploy and if they do they will be assigned the right assets to do the job. Not too difficult a concept to grasp is it?

A very simple outlook - the likelyhood is that they would need to go through the huge trg req of re-roling if they deployed as anything other than a Lt Role Bde.

**Outstanding** · 13-05-2006, 14:13

Originally Posted by Man_of_Bronze

Originally Posted by Outstanding

Lets face it 19 Bde are going to stationed in N Ireland, they may deploy and if they do they will be assigned the right assets to do the job. Not too difficult a concept to grasp is it?

A very simple outlook - the likelyhood is that they would need to go through the huge trg req of re-roling if they deployed as anything other than a Lt Role Bde.

But I thought that was what they were - Lt role Bde.

**Man_of_Bronze** · 13-05-2006, 14:36

Originally Posted by Outstanding

Originally Posted by Man_of_Bronze

Originally Posted by Outstanding

Lets face it 19 Bde are going to stationed in N Ireland, they may deploy and if they do they will be assigned the right assets to do the job. Not too difficult a concept to grasp is it?

A very simple outlook - the likelyhood is that they would need to go through the huge trg req of re-roling if they deployed as anything other than a Lt Role Bde.

But I thought that was what they were - Lt role Bde.

Yes - read the comment

**rabid spaniel** · 13-05-2006, 16:05

Originally Posted by Man_of_Bronze

Originally Posted by rabid spaniel

Originally Posted by chimera

Originally Posted by Hard_vark

Originally Posted by chimera

Originally Posted by rabid spaniel

And there is me thinking that the cloud punchers provided the BM capability within the HQ.

And your point is.....???

I think he is saying that the loss of the AD will also mean the loss of the BM (3D type).

mmm - maybe. But my point was that brigades don't have integral AD, only a CS regiment, so they never had it in the first place!

These young staff officers ... so much to learn eh??

AD is as integral to a Bde as the RA and Engr support. So where, may I ask, would an HQ be without any of them? Every manoeuvre Bde has AD - integral or not- to run the BM. Without them who does it?

AD Assetts are Div assets and are only allocated to a Bde when required. Arty CS assetts, are alinged with Bdes, with the FPC and FOO parties OPCON, but with the guns remain OPCON to CRA and TACON to the Bde, and are part of a Div fireplan.

Lets just look at this. You are right if we are talking about conventional ops in a Div framework(otherwise guns could be OPCON Bde), although few deployements less the really big ones happen like that. If we are talking Div framework then it is unthinkable that a Bde would not get AD at least TACON - and the BADCON cell would sit with bde HQ (where it would have trained all year). Outside the Div framework a Bde would still have its BADCOM cell and its AD troops would either be cloud punching or FP. Throughout its training the AD Bty it is affiliated with (just like RA and Engr) the Bde and would be training with it at every CAST FTX etc fulfilling the BM role. Your point about training is uber valid. 19 will not, indeed do not now have an AD Bty. Ergo it can not train with one, so it can not fully train with the BM expertise within the HQ. Deploying from wherever it is with the full suite of capabilities will require the full trg regime. Stripping it of this key role makes it harder for anyone to choose to deploy 19 without serious foresight and training. Don't even get me started on the question of medics....................

I think we may be violently agreeing here ?