ARmy Rumour SErvice

**baboon6** · 21-02-2012, 18:05

Originally Posted by Stonker

Well, I'll accept that (in part) the GE offr manning levels of WW1 and 2 were partly driven by the fact of having a mahoosive army, and limited numbers of 'educated' souls to be officers. But only in part.

No argument there.

I amfiggering that the manning you describe is a response to further drawdown of the BW in the field, one that is not matched by an equivalent numerical reduction in the total size of the command 'tail'. As the 'teeth' end gets smaller, the 'tail' end - which still needs feeding with the Staff orrcifers of the future - becomes proportionately larger, and a higher percentage company-level command slots that historically would have been reserved for professional NCOs with limited rank horizons, are now being converted into apprenticeships for the staff officers of the future.

Yes one of the blokes said it's at least partially for that reason.

Not sure about the Coy 2ic thing: my mid-80s understanding, based on spending time as a Brit LO with a Boche FSJ Bn on ex Denmark, was that they didn't have a Coy 2ic. I certainly never met one. Looked to me like most of the detailed coord was done directly between Pl Comds, and Der Spiess was the most constant presence in the CP. I can imagine that COIN ops would have created a heretofore undetected requirement for a permanent Coy-level Ops Offir, though, but much of the above is my speculation.

It's a fairly new thing as I understand it.

**Stonker** · 21-02-2012, 21:30

Originally Posted by baboon6

[snip]It's a fairly new thing as I understand it.

Yep.

For the Hermans, so are military operations that are not conducted in order to (a) gain Lebensraum, or (b) Keep the invader at out of Der Vaterland . . . .

Not 'having a go', simply reflecting on the fact that history shapes anyone's military, much more powerfully and subtly than does logic, let alone the 'current defence requirement'.

**Busterdog** · 22-02-2012, 13:58

Interesting thread.

In answer to the OPs question. I believe the value of experience in commanding a platoon on operations inestimable, it is where the young officer really begins to learn his craft.
Sadly it dawns on many of us on reaching company command level that we'd probably, at that stage of our military development, make a halfway decent platoon commander!

As regards operational tempo and opportunities for platoon commanders in previous decades, I guess it was the luck of the draw, my own Bn, following a two year tour in Aden, were in the Radfan '64, Borneo 65-66, NI 70 (from BAOR), 71, 72 (twice) 73, 75-76, 79. In between such tours the Bn served in Kenya '77, and a six month tour in Belize '78. The Bn also managed several stints on Public Duties in London, Edinburgh, and Balmoral throughout the '70s, completed company deployments to Sharjah and exercises in Libya, Cyprus and the USA not to mention a brilliant two year tour in Berlin!
It did slow down a bit in the early '80s with a much needed stable period in BAOR in the, unusual for an Inf Bn, non-mech role. Damn Cold War Warriors - what did WE know about soldiering?

Did my experiences benefit me in civilian life? Absolutely, particularly in the USA where they seem to appreciate initiative and a more dynamic (leadership) style of management - the type encouraged in the British Army of my era.

Retired now and reaping the (substantial) rewards of skills learned, in part, as a platoon commander!

**Once_a_soldier** · 25-02-2012, 10:08

Originally Posted by Busterdog

Interesting thread.

In answer to the OPs question. I believe the value of experience in commanding a platoon on operations inestimable, it is where the young officer really begins to learn his craft.

How much more (if I may ask) does platoon commanding in a war as opposed in peacetime benefit the subbie?

**chocolate_frog** · 25-02-2012, 10:35

Originally Posted by Busterdog

In answer to the OPs question. I believe the value of experience in commanding a platoon on operations inestimable, it is where the young officer really begins to learn his craft.
Sadly it dawns on many of us on reaching company command level that we'd probably, at that stage of our military development, make a halfway decent platoon commander!

That's why you have a Plt Sgt to watch your every move.

**TangoFowerAlpha** · 25-02-2012, 10:56

Frankly, what I got out of troop leading didn't prepare me for very much, other than the practical side of theory taught elsewhere. What really trained me up for greater things was watching how two truly inspirational sqn leaders went about things - an experience I would not have had if I had not been a troop leader. Chicken and egg, I suppose.

**Once_a_soldier** · 28-02-2012, 06:03

Originally Posted by TangoFowerAlpha

Frankly, what I got out of troop leading didn't prepare me for very much, other than the practical side of theory taught elsewhere. What really trained me up for greater things was watching how two truly inspirational sqn leaders went about things - an experience I would not have had if I had not been a troop leader. Chicken and egg, I suppose.

Armour?

Could this indicate a difference in the leadership experience between armour/infantry at the troop/platoon level?