ARmy Rumour SErvice

Originally Posted by depot_donkey

The only 'training' we get is an APWT every year; when will it sink in that simply doing the test is not training, and while practice makes perfect, it does not put right faults as much as coaching

That's a failure of command. There is an Operational Shooting Policy for a reason; it's quite good; and if you follow it, you can't really avoid doing the coaching.

Mind you, I started in the days of the SLR APWT, which you could just about pass with a score taken only from exposures in the prone position. It took a lot of persuasion (as a snotty 2Lt) to get the OC turn one of our range weekends from yet another "let's bang all the guys through the APWT, and if they fail let them resit, they need it for their bounty" to "why not actually try coaching for a full weekend, and they might actually pass the damn thing".

Handy hint - if you only have a few sub-unit coaches, rather than sticking them all on your zeroing range, spread them out. Pair the firers off and make each practice a "watch your mate and see if they do X" shoot. (insert blink / flinch / snatch). Throw in some beers for the best performance, and handicap it if necessary. Nothing like competition, and having your mate watch you like a hawk while taking the piss, to gain full concentration ...

Originally Posted by Gravelbelly

Originally Posted by ugly

Are we in the same position as the British Army was on return from South Africa over 100 years ago?
If we are can we do something about it as we did then or are we going to rely on big guns and money (Javelin and JDAM) to replace individual marksmanship skills?
Answer those questions first!

There's always the option of making the Tickle Test for SAA an explicit part of a new CO's OJAR on appointment. Should focus their mind wonderfully. In these target-driven times, anything that isn't a "target" is by necessity at the bottom of the "to-do" list. Unrealistic, I know.

Glad you mentioned Tickle ... about 10 years ago John Woods was tearing out his remaining hair at the ARA over the dreadful lack of participation. He acknowledged that there were plenty of pressures on Units already, but the bottom line was that was, effectively, Core Activity for the entire Green Machine ... especially Inf.

It doesn't require a genius to make the entire thing FUN as well, and then you get guys wanting to compete [when they can, obviously] and bring back new skills from Central meetings, and pass them on to the rest of the unit. That's how it SHOULD work.

This is not a dig, but when the RAF Regt started competing at Bisley they were being thrashed by WRAF and fat Techie SNCOs and old Ruperts from MOD. Over the years they got better and better, and can now stand up against any Inf outfit on marksmanship - just check Methuen results over recent years.

Originally Posted by blue-sophist

Originally Posted by Gravelbelly

Originally Posted by ugly

Are we in the same position as the British Army was on return from South Africa over 100 years ago?
If we are can we do something about it as we did then or are we going to rely on big guns and money (Javelin and JDAM) to replace individual marksmanship skills?
Answer those questions first!

There's always the option of making the Tickle Test for SAA an explicit part of a new CO's OJAR on appointment. Should focus their mind wonderfully. In these target-driven times, anything that isn't a "target" is by necessity at the bottom of the "to-do" list. Unrealistic, I know.

Glad you mentioned Tickle ... about 10 years ago John Woods was tearing out his remaining hair at the ARA over the dreadful lack of participation. He acknowledged that there were plenty of pressures on Units already, but the bottom line was that was, effectively, Core Activity for the entire Green Machine ... especially Inf.

It doesn't require a genius to make the entire thing FUN as well, and then you get guys wanting to compete [when they can, obviously] and bring back new skills from Central meetings, and pass them on to the rest of the unit. That's how it SHOULD work.

This is not a dig, but when the RAF Regt started competing at Bisley they were being thrashed by WRAF and fat Techie SNCOs and old Ruperts from MOD. Over the years they got better and better, and can now stand up against any Inf outfit on marksmanship - just check Methuen results over recent years.

Well, some of us And anyway what's wrong with a good old WRAF thrashing :D