ARmy Rumour SErvice

**scalieback** · 21-05-2012, 18:07

Originally Posted by ugly

They became sect 1 not 5! Apart from that fairly accurate esp regarding the lack of real need for new laws just a new judiciary with some backbone and a pair of hairy ones!

No, he's right, they became S.5 [5, (1) (af) SCGC's] with an exemption like handguns.
Firearms Act 1968

**scalieback** · 21-05-2012, 18:11

Originally Posted by Beerhunter

As far as FACs are concerned there is no such thing as "relatively easy". An FAC is an FAC with all the attendant work involved.

Next, there is no such thing as a Section 5 FAC. Section 5 weapons are not licensable - they are Prohibited Weapons. To hold them, one needs the authority of the Secretary of State.

They are licensable. In addition to a S.5 authority from the Home Office or Scottish Govt, you also need a firearm certificate. eg if you had a S.5 firearm such as a machine gun and authority from the HO, you'd also need it to be shown on a firearm certificate. Same as blowpipe's used to be.

Many S.5's have exemptions such as handguns and SCGC's to own on a firearms cert without the authority of the HO or Scot Govt providing they are used in compliance with certain criteria.

**ugly** · 21-05-2012, 19:07

Thanks for clearing that up I was involved slightly with the Brocock farce trying to help owners out!

**scalieback** · 21-05-2012, 22:28

Originally Posted by ugly

Thanks for clearing that up I was involved slightly with the Brocock farce trying to help owners out!

Comment was made at the time that if they spent 1% of the money in advertising the Brocock (SCGC) ban as they did on the mobile phone ban which came in at the same/similar time; they would have reached at least 60% more holders.

They still turn up in seizures, finds and amnesties but like the pump shot guns, there's thousands out there. No chance of getting them on FAC now either.

**FroggyStyle** · 21-05-2012, 22:30

''Fucksake can everybody stop getting shot! Tom, sit down and patch yourself up, you TART its a fuckin AIR RIFLE''

**scalieback** · 21-05-2012, 22:34

Originally Posted by FroggyStyle

''Fucksake can everybody stop getting shot! Tom, sit down and patch yourself up, you TART its a fuckin AIR RIFLE''

Could everyone stop getting shot!? - YouTube

Dog: [indicates massive gun] What the fuck is that?
Mickey: It's me Bren gun.
Dog: Don't you think you could have thought of something more practical?

**ugly** · 22-05-2012, 07:59

Can you still buy Brococks, I mean like section 7 they can still be bought and sold through RFDs so can an RFD get a load of them and sell as sect 1? Assuming the RFD either found a bunch, was handed them in or imported/had some made?

Not me by the way just really curious in case I get asked.

**scalieback** · 22-05-2012, 08:18

Originally Posted by ugly

Can you still buy Brococks, I mean like section 7 they can still be bought and sold through RFDs so can an RFD get a load of them and sell as sect 1? Assuming the RFD either found a bunch, was handed them in or imported/had some made?

Not me by the way just really curious in case I get asked.

Nope, not unless you get a Section 5 (1) (af) authority from the Home Office.

The time limit to get them on a certificate expired years ago. They're either illegally held or on certificate. Some dealers may have 5 (1) (af)'s, but not many imx.

By Brococks, I assume you mean SCGC's ie Self Contained Gas Cartridge firearms

Section 7's under the '97 Act are still bought and sold but to deal in them you need 5 (1) (aba) from the Home Office. As a collector, a certificate conditioned to allow either keeping at home or at a HARC respectively. Otherwise, they're Section 5 (1) (aba) and prohibited, albeit you could try and get some under 58(2) now

**ugly** · 22-05-2012, 08:29

Hmm, s58 is an odd one, I often see pistols and revolvers classed in auction as sect 5 when they should really be 58 but its often easier to let the dealer make that leap than the auction house get into bother. West mids were mongs regarding sect 7 and 58 and the Met havent covered themselves with glory where some of the older .44 S&W Cf were concerned. Still I expect every 10 or 20 years we will get a rationalisation of calibres on the list.
If obsolescence and availability was a criteria then .303 would have been 58 in the late 1990's esp if the TR mob had got their way!

**scalieback** · 22-05-2012, 13:10

Originally Posted by ugly

Hmm, s58 is an odd one, I often see pistols and revolvers classed in auction as sect 5 when they should really be 58 but its often easier to let the dealer make that leap than the auction house get into bother. West mids were mongs regarding sect 7 and 58 and the Met havent covered themselves with glory where some of the older .44 S&W Cf were concerned. Still I expect every 10 or 20 years we will get a rationalisation of calibres on the list.
If obsolescence and availability was a criteria then .303 would have been 58 in the late 1990's esp if the TR mob had got their way!

The trouble is, as we've been saying on other threads before; not much has really changed in over a hundred years. Each case should be taken on its own individual merits and whilst you may hear about the cases BASC etc. win, you won't hear about the cases they lose.

If we had a cut off date it would be so much more simple for everybody concerned and without lawyers making more money. Whether that is 1870 (France), 1899 (US?), 1900, 1910 or whatever. A rolling 100 years doesn't help either as you're getting down into the weeds about a .455 revolver 1 year being Section 5, the next Section 58. A hundred years before 1968 (the principle Act) they were using muzzle loading rifled muskets. A hundred years before 2012, they were using bolt action magazine fed centre fire rifles and belt fed machine guns.

The last I heard, Europe (bless 'em

) was going to come up with an EU definition. Whether they actually will ......