Originally Posted by Croque_Monsieur

Ref the Chassepot bayonet: Seems dubious, the bayonet for my rifle is very well made and certainly not flexible. Since the internet is awash with them in good condition and whole, it would seem to contradict your evaluation

I'll have a look at it tonight, but in comparison with my 1908 British bayonet the Chassepot one is definatley not as robust! The British bayonet is a very sturdy bit of kit, but I get the impression that using the Chassepot bayonet too energetically might well snap it!

All the best

Rodney2q

Apples and pears there mate.... 40 years of development between them. The yagatan style bayonet was used by a vast amount of countries world wide with the French kicking off the trend with the 1842 pattern, it performed just fine to thrust into the enemy. Now talk about the 1886 "Rosalie" needle bayo, that did snap/bend easily.

Following on....

As I mentioned in the Dreyse article, the Prussians caused a stir in the European armies, particularly the French since the two parties had been at each others throats over Alsace/Lorraine for years. Antoine Chassepot followed the idea of the Dreyse but made a number of improvements:

a) The fulminate cap is at the base of the cartridge thus the needle only needs to protrude a short distance into the chamber.
b) The boltface is mobile and backed by a rubber gasket, thus when the shot is fired, the gas pushes back on the boltface, which compresses the rubber or leather gasket between the boltface and the rest of the bolt body causing it to expand and seal the chamber.
c) Bolt operation is easier IMHO, with the Dreyse you open the bolt, load, close the bolt and push an intermediate portion of the bolt forward to compress the firing spring, then fire. With the Chassepot you pull the cocking piece back, open bolt, load, close bolt, fire. Seems more natural to me.
d) The bullet is a smooth sided conventional .45 conical rifle bullet which historically far outperformed the Dreyse "acorn" in range and accuracy (no surprise there).

The only bad point I have against it is the fact that almost complete bolt disassembly is needed to change the needle, so a broken needle put a soldier out of the fight for a good few minutes assuming he didn't loose any bits in the mud/sand/corpses. Otherwise it is a rifle with very sleek lines and good balance.

Bolt detail:


The ammo is basically a rimless combustible CF cartridge with the case made from paper or linen. This ammo is actually quite easy to make if a little time consuming. Essential to it all is a 12mm tube to use as a mandrel. Since the fulminate pills are no longer available, an ordinary winged musket cap does the job nicely, this is stuck upside down (so that the needle strikes the inside) on a card 12mm diameter disc which forms the base of cartridge, next you roll a 12mm paper tube up around the mandrel and glue it, then put the base disc on the end of the mandrel (cap inside), apply glue to the end of the paper tube and fold it around the disc so you end up with a close end. Once this is done you simply add your charge, greased wad and greased bullet of choice and twist the paper shut like I did for the Dreyse cartridge. There are several techniques published online so PM if you want geeky details.

Original:



Some like to fill the cap with powder before sticking it to the cap to insure ignition, I don't and don't have any misfires either. Due to all that burning paper the soot build up in the chamber is quite rapid and the chamber dimensions will eventually be reduced to the extent that a round will not chamber or will rip when attempting to close the bolt. A quick brush clears this problem but I don't know how this was dealt with back in the day.

To get a Chassepot ready for range use it is essential to replace the rubber seal and the needle (to preserve the original). Both can be found new from sources in France or can be home made. Regular 18mm plumbing washers make ideal seal replacements with only a little trimming needed for a perfect fit and piano wire or the like is good needle material, the only hitch is adding a base flange to the needle to slot it into the cocking piece but I have a simple solution for that if interested. The needle must be of the right diameter to avoid the risk of gases passing down the bolt needle channel and a small rubber washer can be placed inside the bolt just in case. Chassepots can be found for peanuts compared to the Dreyse and if you are mainly interested in shooting it, it does not even matter if the seal and needle are missing (often are) since they need changing anyway. My particular rifle was made at the Manufacture Imperiale de Tulle and issued to the navy and did not see much use.

That's a very shiney Chasse' C-M (To coin a phrase... :D )

Mine is all brown from old oil etc I am in two minds whether to strike it up or leave is as it is. Many of the REAL Anoraks prefer the "hung on the wall for 100 years" look. I take it that the original finish was "in the white"?

I know the Wests break off two wings of the percussion cap to allow venting. I think this is worth a try.

The other thing that apparantly causes problems is a weak spring. Anybody know a source of spares?

Yep, finish was in the white, certainly for infantry rifles. I did not touch mine, it came shiny and keep a good eye on it to keep it so.

Do you know your spring is too weak or are you anticipating?

Incidently both bolts of the needle rifles are shaped such that when closed, there is a recess behind what we would call the chamber, this is apparently to give "swirling space" to help complete the combustion of the cartridge.

Originally Posted by Croque_Monsieur

Yep, finish was in the white, certainly for infantry rifles. I did not touch mine, it came shiny and keep a good eye on it to keep it so.

Do you know your spring is too weak or are you anticipating?

Incidently both bolts of the needle rifles are shaped such that when closed, there is a recess behind what we would call the chamber, this is apparently to give "swirling space" to help complete the combustion of the cartridge.

just anticipating, but it does feel a bit weak..

.. like me at times

The spring is does not need to be as tough as a modern boltie mainspring, setting a cap off only takes a light (but sharp) tap, much less than a modern primer. Try before you buy as they say

This country is crazy..

I went in to Screwfix today to buy some tap washers to make a Chasse' obturator.

This is 18mm diameter...

So.. UK Tap washers are 1/2" and 3/4" - so I order 3/4". Bag arrives and I think - funny they seem bit large.

It transpires that 3/4" tap washers are actually 1" diameter. 1/2" washers are on the other hand 3/4" diameter (18mm) and perfectly fits the Chassepot rifle bolt..

SO (jamming on tinfoil hat) can I ask...

Why do UK 1/2" tap washers (which have NO dimensions that match 1/2") perfectly fit a metric French early breeech loading musket...?

I think we should be told...!

(I could only get away with telling this story on this thread... :D )


(or maybe not... )

I have some of the HBSA Journals to hand and will scan the relevant bits into a pdf tomorrow, let me know when I post up the topics which if any that you want by e mail!

Much obliged to you sir