Originally Posted by blue_sophist

Still waiting, Mr C. Hinecrap.
[oops, typo ... too late]

Another hour [well, nearly] ...
Hinecrap, where are you?

Actually, I have more of a life that waiting for him. I'll see if he has posted tomorrow ... impertinent armpit.

OK, weapons free, back to thread topic which was .....
FS are not equivalent to WO2.
No they're not.
Good, that's settled then.
Unless they are equivalent to an American CW 1.375, but, hey, don't let's go there again.

Hinecrap, I'm really looking forward to tomorrow ... or whenever you finish your cocoa. But ... not tonight.
CU ... this C/S OUT.

Blue_sophist: bit keen aren't you? Clearly an ex-orrifice. Intellectual overload bit too much? I have respected your views previously but your response to Hinecap seems too much. Clearly horrifcers can't bre wrong in their opinions. I trust you retired at a point whereby you no longer needed to work in the real world?
Believe it or not Mr Hinecap is typically overbearing as a crab but your response sums up the attitude of typical army officers-no one can challenge, or they are wrong.
Am I wrong?

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

Blue_sophist: bit keen aren't you? Clearly an ex-orrifice. Intellectual overload bit too much? I have respected your views previously but your response to Hinecap seems too much. Clearly horrifcers can't bre wrong in their opinions. I trust you retired at a point whereby you no longer needed to work in the real world?
Believe it or not Mr Hinecap is typically overbearing as a crab but your response sums up the attitude of typical army officers-no one can challenge, or they are wrong.
Am I wrong?

We're well off thread now, so I shouldn't be prolonging this.
Sorry if I banged on a bit, but Mr C. got under my skin with his comment ... especially when he then disappeared after posting it. And I still don't know what he's complaining about. But WTF, it's only the inter-web ...
So, "Mr C is an overbearing Crab, and I'm typical of an Army officer no-one can challenge" ... OK. I'm not spoiling a sunny morning with more arguing!

Originally Posted by blue_sophist

plant-life, the one thing I have discovered as an ex-Crab on ARRSE is that nobody [probably even their parents] likes Movers.
Not even Crabs like Movers.
Not even crabs like Movers, apparently.

furthermore, nobody ever admits to being one, or leaps to their defence with reasoned arguments. They are, like those clever plastic bottle-tops that never seem to quite work, one of those things sent to annoy us all.

Like Chief-Two, for example.

or first-tour DE captains ... which I find faintly horrifying, as it took 6 years as a DE to reach than rank in my lot.

There is your arrogance. I'm not sure whether your tirade since my last post was arrogance or that I have a life away from the interweb and don't live here.

blindfire - working at a civ airport is a far less complex issue than the mil aviation aspect. There has not been the investment in mil freight and pax, so even the most basic aspects are far behind the civ world. People on here also bang on about their own horror story - from some time in the last 25 yrs usually! Improvements are there - eg last rip flights were well over 90% dead on time.
The Movs trade is also seriously undermanned and overstretched. It isn't so easy to recruit and train - especially in the current situation. Please look at the age of our fleet and the complexities of flying them, adding defensive aid suites and operating from really crappy places. It is still not a very swept up, end to end process - and sometimes feels different aspects have priorities other than moving the freight - self-loading or not. Plantlife - if you are still serving, please get in touch and I'll try to tee up a visit to BZZ or LYE for you to see the Movs side of things.

I'm not at Abbey Wood either.

Sorry about the drift off topic. It is the difference in experience / time in compared to rank worn that causes the rift. If you were a 40 year old man, doing well in the promotion stakes in their own Service, would you be comfortable with someone 10 yrs younger and 1 rank up throwing their weight around? Probably not. It won't go away in our lifetime.

Originally Posted by Mr_C_Hinecap

Originally Posted by blue_sophist

plant-life, the one thing I have discovered as an ex-Crab on ARRSE is that nobody [probably even their parents] likes Movers.
Not even Crabs like Movers.
Not even crabs like Movers, apparently.
furthermore, nobody ever admits to being one, or leaps to their defence with reasoned arguments. They are, like those clever plastic bottle-tops that never seem to quite work, one of those things sent to annoy us all.
Like Chief-Two, for example.
or first-tour DE captains ... which I find faintly horrifying, as it took 6 years as a DE to reach than rank in my lot.

There is your arrogance. I'm not sure whether your tirade since my last post was arrogance or that I have a life away from the interweb and don't live here.
.....
Sorry about the drift off topic. It is the difference in experience / time in compared to rank worn that causes the rift. If you were a 40 year old man, doing well in the promotion stakes in their own Service, would you be comfortable with someone 10 yrs younger and 1 rank up throwing their weight around? Probably not. It won't go away in our lifetime.

Good morning, Mr. C.
I shall start by apologising to you for getting somewhat hyper yesterday evening ... I got over-irritated by your remarks and then, as I had no way of knowing what you were talking about, frustrated by not being able to get clarification.

You said ...

Sophist - I hope you were a Harrier pilot when in the RAF - anyone else with such an aloof attitude would be a bit of a fake.

This morning that has become "arrogance", as quoted above. However, I'm still unclear where your concerns lie.

Do I presume that you refer to my comments about RAF Movements Staff, as that was the specific topic when you addressed blind_fire? If so, please re-read my text .... I referred to the fact that ARRSE contributors seem universally anti-Mover. I thought I had done so in a jocular manner, and certainly did not start a personal diatribe on the subject. I will accept that I implied agreement with the Army view ... however, I submit that hardly justifies the appellation of "aloof" or "arrogant". Indeed, see my posts at 5:16pm "Green suits throwing their weight around, while the light blue try [against all odds] to get a bunch of cantankerous old SNCOs and their untidy, light-fingered, uncontrollable puppies to move in an orderly manner onto an expensive [but delicate] aircraft." and at 5:37pm ... "I don't envy them their job, for starters".

Or, as your last para implies, is your concern about my remark about the first-tour DE captain? My point there was that I could not understand how one could be both DE and a captain [Army capt, not a/c capt]. plant-life then explained what he meant ... first tour in rank.

There we are ... back to the newspapers. Enjoy the rest of the weekend.

Originally Posted by Mr_C_Hinecap

Sorry about the drift off topic. It is the difference in experience / time in compared to rank worn that causes the rift. If you were a 40 year old man, doing well in the promotion stakes in their own Service, would you be comfortable with someone 10 yrs younger and 1 rank up throwing their weight around? Probably not. It won't go away in our lifetime.

But isn't that just a fact of life?

Your Troop officer is in his early 20's - he's the one telling the guys what to do and when to do it. His Troop NCO might not like it, but he's still going to do it.

From a TA perspective, it's quite a large fact of life! I've seen any number of 40 year old JNCO's who are quite happy to do their time in green with a little authority on their arm, but don't want to be SNCO's.

If someone has a problem with a 30 year old SSgt telling them what to do, it's their problem - the SSgt can't allow himself to be dictated to or base his decisions on relative age, any more than the Troop officer can. It undermines their authority, and that has far reaching effects.

Originally Posted by Mr_C_Hinecap

If you were a 40 year old man, doing well in the promotion stakes in their own Service, would you be comfortable with someone 10 yrs younger and 1 rank up throwing their weight around?

No I wouldn't and don't!

Originally Posted by Grumpyoldflight

Originally Posted by Mr_C_Hinecap

If you were a 40 year old man, doing well in the promotion stakes in their own Service, would you be comfortable with someone 10 yrs younger and 1 rank up throwing their weight around?

No I wouldn't and don't!

Its a fact of life and chosen career path, im an old crusty Artisan Sgt getting close to 40 with Artificer SSGT's 10 years my junior but you have to respect them for who they are. If you give them the respect they will respect your judgements of experience and back you to the hilt, just like young officers.

The fundamental issue is "Don't throw your weight around".

There is a balance to be struck between simple titular rank and experience. A long-serving sgt has as much right to be heard as a fairly junior S/Sgt ... although you then have to assess why one is still junior to the other.

I had an O-3 join my sqn, who on day 2 [whilst just watching proceedings generally] told [not asked] a quite senior cpl to get him a coffee. I "invited" the O-3 to make coffee for everyone, as the cpl was rather busy doing his "day job".

Thanks for the invite there but I'm too bust enjoying my pre-tour leave. I'm hoping that my flight to Afghanistan is one of the 90% that go on time etc.