Originally Posted by Closet_Jibber

I'm genuinely asking as I don't see how being a member of the mess improves the effectiveness of an SNCO.

I'll genuinely answer you, although I'm a few years out of date.

As a newly promoted REME Sergeant, I was posted to the Lifeguards in Windsor. This was my first time ever in a WO's and Sergeants mess, (The Lifeguards Mess is actually a WOs and NCO's) I'd never waited on as a junior, and had no idea as to what was expected of me.

As a PMC of a Royal Signals Cpls Mess, (I know, the bleeps at 4 Div HQ hated that fact as well) understood fully the protocols of that hierarchy and thoroughly enjoyed the experience, but this was something new altogether.

Prior to my posting, I'd read up on the Lifeguards history and traditions, but could find no information about their Mess life, and so entered with some trepidation.

My first point of call, as a 'singly, was my room. To call it a small box affair is to overstate it's size, the door jammed up against my pre delivered MFO box when I opened it. There was a window overlooking a nice garden, and a wash hand basin, and that was pretty much it. So much for promotion, my room in Fallingbostel as a full screw was twice as big.

There were about a dozen living in members, and only one other attached bod, another REME guy, the RCM was single, and although he had a BFO MQ around the corner, opted to live in. His room was the same size as mine.

The living quarters were the only part of the mess where collar and tie was not required to be worn, it was even compulsory when leaving the camp gates, and there were stories about SNCO's being caught on holiday abroad without the required neckwear, and receiving extra duties on their return. The SCPL who lived in the room opposite me considered this rule as his own personal quest, and I fell foul of him on numerous occasions. He eventually made RCM.

As to the actual Mess. It was an old wooden building, and didn't look like much from outside, but inside was a different story altogether. Regimental silver, each item with a story to tell, fine art paintings depicting glorious never to be forgotten battles, leather furniture, highly polished wood and a smell of undisguised snobbery.

There was no way on Gods little planet, that a stinking gnarly old Rechy Mech would fit in here. A pint of piss and a shit sandwich would have looked quite out of place.

There were no clocks on the walls, and newspapers were not allowed in the bar. The dress code extended to footwear. Black leather only. Jackets were not to be removed. This place had a serious air about it, and I had the sinking feeling that there was no fun to had here, and I wasn't going to last a bloody week.

The dining room was fairly small, silver cutlery, Regimental crockery and each table had
a silver centrepiece. All very formal. The room was partitioned, and on opening the sliding doors it revealed a larger room which was obviously to be used for functions. The wooden floor shone like an ice rink.

I was introduced to the Mess Manager, a CoH whose uniform consisted solely of grey pin striped suits. A portly gentleman who had been running the mess for a number of years, he knew all the ins and outs of Mess life and willingly explained the rules, regulations and possible bear traps that lay ahead of me. He died about 10 years ago. Fine fellow, may he rest in peace.

Troopers waited on, and their duties lasted about a month, during which time they would be taught about the Regimental history, the significance of the paintings and the stories behind the mess silver. They were often tested on their knowledge by property member.

The food was first class. A choice of menu was offered, and a decision had to be made at breakfast as to what was to be eaten at evening meal. The chef was an ACC Sergeant and the 'extra messing' money we had to pay, was put to good use by this enterprising fellow. Waiter and silver service was the norm, other than weekends when 'brunch' was he meal of choice, self service and much more relaxed, despite the collar and tie.

The barman had the heady title of Mess Caterer and was a serving CoH or Sergeant, he ran the mess for a month and it wasn't a voluntary affair. He had full control of stock ordering and accounting during his tenure, and woe betide if stock ever ran out or the books didn't balance at the end of the month.

The Mess Caterer was excused all other duties, he had the power to pick and choose his waiting/bar staff during functions, and was allowed to pocket any monies in excess of the balanced account, This could accumulate into extraordinary amounts, well in excess of a months wage if the individual was shrewd enough.

The senior ranking member drinking in the mess decided on the closing time, regardless of the officially posted opening hours.

Mess meetings were a three line whip affair, and with the addition of the Corporals who were full members, but couldn't eat or live in, made for big meetings. LCpls could use the bar but were non voting members.

There was a well attended function every month, the theme voted in at a mess meeting. Woman were not allowed to order at the bar, collar, tie and jackets were to remain on and although it sounds like a nightmare, these events were cracking fun. The most popular theme, not surprisingly was 'Country and Western' fancy dress, although nobody liked the music (except me) it meant no collar and tie.

The Summer and Christmas balls were heady affairs, professionally managed, outstanding in every detail, and to have the honour of attending just one of these affairs was worth the cost of the Mess Dress alone.

As to the day to day business, the Mess was a meeting place, where friendships could be made. It's all very well pulling your weight on the tank park or the workshops, but the real nitty gritty was covered in the mess.

The use of rank was somewhat relaxed, (other than the RCM) and the use of first names were totally acceptable. I realise that this sounds like pish and archaic bollox, but we are talking about an historic Regiment that (rightly) prides itself on old fashioned values and tradition.

There is no way a Sergeant or CoH would call a WO by his Christian name outside of the mess. That's just how it was, and nobody had a problem with that.

A whole bunch of work was done 'behind the scenes' in the Mess, there is no way during a working day that I could have visited every department in order to make use of a contact, even on a small barracks such as Combermere. This is where the Mess came into it's own. Problems were sorted over a beer or two, work issues were smoothed out over a glass of brandy and friendships were forged in a fog of port.

I did manage to survive my time at Windsor, i even enjoyed my one month stint as Mess Caterer, and although totally alien to me to begin with, I found myself immersed in a warm and friendly environment, and despite, or perhaps because of, the archaic traditions unique to my parent Regiment I am still in contact with those lads today.

The British Army is steeped in tradition, and the loss of Just a small part of it, is, in my eyes anyway, down to either subversion, lack of respect or sheer fucking laziness.

I an unaccompanied have have been for a good few years so have stayed in various messes. Some have been really good, others mediocre. PAYD has killed off some messes which is a shame. The mess I am in at the moment is pretty good. No cliques, some good events and a good laugh with people with a similar mind set (generally).
What does piss me off though is mess fees and the fact that living in members have to pay double subs. For what? Washing machines and dryers are now at public expense (bearing in mind the the juniors have 1 washing machine and drier per flat of 6 and in the mess we have the same scaling for around 20), the newspapers and Sky tv is for everybody, there's no internet etc etc. Fair enough, we do have a LIMs fund which some of our extra subs go to but other than that we really don't see any other extra benefit. Also the accommodation can be pretty shody, with a lot of personnel, particularly those who have lived in SLAM as a junior, living in worse rooms as a senior. Those two points are my only gripes about being in the mess and wouldn't really affect me if I lived out.

Originally Posted by No_Duff

If any SNCO doesn't want to be part of the Sgt's Mess, they could hand a tape in, simples.

Ah yes, because wanting to be a mess member or not really reflects on your ability to do your job.

Originally Posted by Filbert Fox

how many of the posters on this thread are actually WOs or SNCOs? I only ask because a fair few of the moans about the mess are the ones that I heard for years from people who were 'over looked' for promotion or didnt think they would come off the board when I was a JNCO but never actually witnessed in the years I spent as a mess member, of course there are elements that some people dont like, but 'being chest poked by an old crusty', 'not being able to bring your JR other half to functions' etc.... really???

I'm a Sgt, and the majority of Messes I've been in are not like they were 30 years ago. My father was bleep and I remember his messes being packed, however that similar to civvie pubs 30 years ago there was fuck all to do except go to the mess.
Nowdays, Its is very, very rare you will every see a pad inside the mess unless its an official function or tea and toast, they simply don't go. The singlies (like the JNCOs) now have sky, internet and fridges in there room. They can sit there and watch what they like with who they like until what ever time they like (and possibly smoke depending on the rules). You go into the mess bar and you'll watch whatever the senior/majority want to watch, you have to put up with people who you detest, you can't invite anyone junior friends (fair enough but that doesnt mean people like it) and the bar will close when the NAAFI/Sodexo bird says it closing.
So I ask again what is so magical about the Mess?

Although this was 1999 I remember some tosser (WO2) holding court and wantiing everyone to introduce themselve to him as he was the senior and so it was his right. I also remember him disappearing up his own arse when he tried it with a WO1. Some RSMs didnt allow JNCO other half to function (mostly if they were girlfiriends but I do recall at least one occasion when it was wives). Plus various other bullshit, speaking personally I was well impressd a litre of vodka cost less than a quid

Originally Posted by verticalgyro

In fact, fcuk this, I am going down the bar for a beer, it'll be ace, I hope I catch some junior Sergeant down there then I will bully him into playing Shock until 0700 - he can't leave if I am there, and other Army Lies & Myths.

I'll bring the cups and dice.

Originally Posted by Filbert Fox

people arent happy unless theyve got something to whinge about, the pros far outweigh the cons, just that some people are only as good as the bit they dont like. Same in any walk of life, but as said before, how many of the moaners are actually SNCOs?

Well come on, please explain the pros, I'll start, the bar doesnt have drunlen 18 year old hardmen it it, now over to you.

Televisions in the Mess bar? Good Lord, stacker, I at least used to give you credit for being in the Army (albeit a branch for fat wheezy boys with notes from matron &. horror of horror, women) but are you now telling em you're in the RAF

Originally Posted by CaptainPlume

Televisions in the Mess bar? Good Lord, stacker, I at least used to give you credit for being in the Army (albeit a branch for fat wheezy boys with notes from matron &. horror of horror, women) but are you now telling em you're in the RAF

How else would we be able to toast the Queen during her speech on Christmas day?

Originally Posted by stacker1

How else would we be able to toast the Queen during her speech on Christmas day?

Toasts? How very chip shop!

I wasn't aware that one could purchase grilled bread with butter and marmalade from such establishments as "chip shops".