ARmy Rumour SErvice

**Mobat** · 29-04-2012, 22:07

Originally Posted by Mr_C_Hinecap

Your 'logic' is flawed. Everyone on the public transport has different journeys so 'you x them' is not the sum required to calculate pollution per head. You can go and find your own studies - there are a few out there and good public transport produces less pollution per person travelling than cars do.

I have yet to find a study that takes the useful passenger mile issue into account. Perhaps you could point me to one that does.

**chocolate_frog** · 29-04-2012, 22:12

Nyquist theory?

or similar, specially devised for busses.

**alib** · 29-04-2012, 22:53

Originally Posted by Mr_C_Hinecap

Public transport achieves a far higher density of passengers per mode of transport and the corresponding pollution is far less per person moving. Do you really think that 200 people on a tram / bus / train are per head anything close to the pollution generated by the same number of people in cars?

Please strictly one lead footed person/SUV, my broker says this public transport stuff is making me poorer, it follows it is the work of Satan. Not that Satan doesn't have his good points but that's mainly in the conflict diamond part of my portfolio.

**jumpinjarhead** · 30-04-2012, 04:55

Don't leave out the huge problem of bovine and equine flatulence.

[QUOTE=Mr_C_Hinecap;4370319]Poor air quality reduces the life expectancy of everyone in the UK by an average of seven to eight months and up to 50,000 people a year may die prematurely because of it. Air pollution also causes significant damage to ecosystems. Despite these facts being known air quality is not seen as a priority across government and the UK is failing to meet a range of domestic and European targets.

2. Industry and road transport are the main sources of air pollution, though domestic combustion and agriculture are also to blame. Industry is a major source of emissions of NOX (46%) and PM10 (36%). Road transport contributes to significant emissions of NO2 (30%) and PM10 (18%). Emissions and exposure vary greatly depending on location. Although polluting, the majority of large combustion plants are located away from major urban centres. Road transport contributes far more to the public

**Mr_C_Hinecap** · 30-04-2012, 06:05

Originally Posted by jumpinjarhead

Don't leave out the huge problem of bovine and equine flatulence.

If we're talking methane and messing with the atmosphere, yes. However, if we're talking particulates, NOX and NO2, then no. We're talking about the latter.

**Steven** · 30-04-2012, 08:16

This is just the first shot in the next genial wheeze to get more money out of you.

Anyone want to take a bet on just exactly how long it will be before you have "emmision control areas" in place in all the cities with the concurrent little sticker (mandatory) and fines for non display?

The scheme has been running in Germany for a couple of years now and it is a nice little money spinner (at least at first) with completely zero provable benefits.

Low emission zones in Europe information.

**alib** · 30-04-2012, 09:46

If low emission targets means strapping a great big catalytic converter to your gas guzzler and so adding a few extra gallons/mile I'm all for them.

**FourEM** · 30-04-2012, 09:53

I do love this whole "x thing takes a year off your life"

To paraphrase Dennis Leary

Yes but its the 1's at the end ; the dementia incontinence years which you can have

**Chromodynamix** · 30-04-2012, 10:01

It's highly complex, and PM10s are an issue but sub micron particulates have hardly been researched.

Ozone and limonene in indoor air: a source of submicron particle exposure.

NOX, espescially NO, produced by petrol engines exaberate ground level Ozone, while diesel is more responsible for PM10s.

Some of you may be happy with this, but it indicates how serious it can get without controls.

13,000 deaths in Tehran due to pollution

PS. I used to sell vehicle emission analysis systems to Iran untill Honeywell took us over and stopped it, despite my claim the equipment was for humanitarian purposes.

**jumpinjarhead** · 30-04-2012, 12:41

Originally Posted by Steven

This is just the first shot in the next genial wheeze to get more money out of you.

Anyone want to take a bet on just exactly how long it will be before you have "emmision control areas" in place in all the cities with the concurrent little sticker (mandatory) and fines for non display?

The scheme has been running in Germany for a couple of years now and it is a nice little money spinner (at least at first) with completely zero provable benefits.

Low emission zones in Europe information.

We have it in the US in various forms--also without much empirical evidence.