Are you religious?

[Signals_Rugby_Dog]

I made a big mistake with this thread - I started at page 1 .... Quickly realised my school boy error and fast forwarded to the last 4 pages. Probably missed loads of interesting stuff but I do have a life to live.

Interesting debate about religion and science. Could it be that science is a form of religion in that we believe strongly in it? What happens when something is proven by science and then another bit of science proves the same thing differently? Doesn't that happen often?

Religion overcomes difficult questions by having an over riding faith. ie "I can't explain it because I am not all knowing, but I have faith in god/allah/buddha etc." Isn't faith a strong belief?

It is irrefutable that scientists were persecuted in many centuries when their findings disproved what the all powerful church preached.

And where mullahs are the only form of local education, it is not surprising that when they are fundamentalists the pupil grows into a totally committed religious zealot. Any form of extremism, including extreme faith in science, is to be condemned.

Have a great day.

[Cuddles]

Faith in "facts" must be even more upsetting when it is dislocated than faith in shimmery beardy blokes in white frocks...

[BuggerAll]

I suspect the educated (modern, post-enlightenment, not foaming at the mouth) Christian answer would be Mark 12:28-34.

The Phelps' don't seem to understand that "Love thy neighbour as thyself" does not involve parading around soldiers' funerals campaigning against gay people. Not that Jesus (as opposed either to Mosaic Law or St Paul) has been recorded as anti-homo.

And, of course, John 8:1-11 (Jesus & the woman caught in adultery - for those so anti-religion that they can't bring themselves to check the Bible, even online.)

I imagine the Phelps have checked their bibles and thier version of religion seems to be a more literal reading of the bible than is popular in the west these days. They would say that they are loving their neighbours by pointing out to them that unless they submit to the will of god, as expressed in the bible, they are destined to hell fire and damnation.

I'm a Christian-more specifically a lapsed Catholic. My upbringing taught me that God is loving and tolerant. I don't know much about the Phelps but I suspect tolerant is not a word often combined with their name? I may be wrong on this but I was taught the Old testament was a collection of allegorical stories. Give me sufficient time and the desire to be bothered and I could probably produce contradicting quotes from the OT on any given subject.

Where you ever offered any evidence of god's love and tolerance or any manifestation of this love and tolerance? The god of the bible is anything but loving and tolerant and if there is an omnipotent supreme being it is either indifferent or a bit of a bastard.

My beliefs suggest that their beliefs are contraty to mine -BUT they are entitled to them. I don't believe in foisting my irrational ramblings on anyone-unless of course, they're smaller or more vulnerable than me (that's not religion, it's politics!)

Religion is politics. It's about controlling people.

[Higgs_bosun]

Who? Me, Your Honour? Start the fight? Never lifted a finger.

Your deluded colleagues are joining in for a scrap and they will have one... My Scottish blood may have a bearing on the outcome.

Certainly. You spelt 'nonsense' incorrectly.

... There are lots of things that children 'discover' that subsequently turn out to be false.

It must really piss you off that all you can find wrong with my material is the odd typo ...and that a semi literate person can run rings around you with ease.

Well, your trans-absolute certainty will make a good starter for ten and then just take it from there. ... or are you just one of these sad old atheists who pontificate about arresting religious leaders and then just stand around having a good old moan when the real event goes on as if they never existed?

Not absolute certainty Cogi....just common or garden certainty. But all atheists sad or old must accept that the delusion of dogma is a blind entity. It has swept the planet from it's invention and no amount of pontification can halt it. It probably means a fight to the death... Mankind is a terminally ill patient. The god cancer in all it's malignant forms can be seen everywhere we look.

OOIC, have you actually read the 'Is Psychology a Science' article you pointed us to?

Unlike you Cogi... I don't believe everything that I read....

[StickyEnd]

Faith in "facts" must be even more upsetting when it is dislocated than faith in shimmery beardy blokes in white frocks...

Why do you say that? You may be projecting your prejudices onto others here. Think of the most famous/celebrated scientists that you can, they will almost certainly have overturned accepted "facts". By doing that they win fame/prizes, not get threatened with torture.

[Signals_Rugby_Dog]

How may more posts do I have to put up before I get my third medal?

[Higgs_bosun]

I made a big mistake with this thread - I started at page 1 .... Quickly realised my school boy error and fast forwarded to the last 4 pages. Probably missed loads of interesting stuff but I do have a life to live.

Interesting debate about religion and science. Could it be that science is a form of religion in that we believe strongly in it? What happens when something is proven by science and then another bit of science proves the same thing differently? Doesn't that happen often?

Religion overcomes difficult questions by having an over riding faith. ie "I can't explain it because I am not all knowing, but I have faith in god/allah/buddha etc." Isn't faith a strong belief?

It is irrefutable that scientists were persecuted in many centuries when their findings disproved what the all powerful church preached.

And where mullahs are the only form of local education, it is not surprising that when they are fundamentalists the pupil grows into a totally committed religious zealot. Any form of extremism, including extreme faith in science, is to be condemned.

Have a great day.

How may more posts do I have to put up before I get my third medal?

With posts of that calibre it's hard to say pal...."extreme faith in science, is to be condemned." An 'Oxygen Thief' tag may be more appropriate.

[Signals_Rugby_Dog]

With posts of that calibre it's hard to say pal...."extreme faith in science, is to be condemned." An 'Oxygen Thief' tag may be more appropriate.

Good editing to change the meaning Higgsy. Do you work for a newspaper or some other form of printed media?

Do you disagree that extreme views are to be condemned? If extreme faith in science is OK, how does one reconcile the disproving of one scientific discovery by another?

[StickyEnd]

Sticky..I don't require a benchmark for my lack of faith because I don't have any... I'm one of those sort of atheists...you know, god and religions are imagined. I was also an atheist long before Dawkins burst on the scene. Hope that settles the matter.

I pretty much agree with that. Dawkins is not the equivalent of my pastor, he is just a guy that I admire. I don't expect the religious to understand that. I was agnostic/atheist (depending on which definitions you use) before I read/watched anything Dawkins has done.

I do find his atheist crusade both amusing and enlightening to watch, Especially in his opponents responses.

[Higgs_bosun]

Good editing to change the meaning Higgsy. Do you work for a newspaper or some other form of printed media?

Do you disagree that extreme views are to be condemned? If extreme faith in science is OK, how does one reconcile the disproving of one scientific discovery by another?

You will find that choosing words carefully is an art...you may have a lot to learn.

I don't agree that "extreme views are to be condemned"...it depends on what's involved. If my daughter was attacked by a rapist I would be more than slightly miffed...and if he was then let off with two hours community service I would be unchuffed to put it mildly. Religious extremism is another matter... such irrational behaviour I am not prepared to tolerate.

But you said "extreme faith in science" and that is just daft... Do you have extreme faith that your keyboard will work? or extreme faith that the Earth is spherical?... Trust in science is high for good reasons but never absolute so it can never be extreme. I've never heard of extreme faith in science...a poor choice of words.