Are you religious?

[Higgs_bosun]

I may have misunderstood but surely the argument is not about how a religious scientist may be more successful or astute because of his beliefs, but the fact that being a scientist, with all the analytical, logical thought that entails, does not preclude a belief in God.

Much of the rationale on here appears to be:

Religion = stupidity

Science = the key to all things

The science equation is good as far as it goes but does not so far provide all the answers, nor may it ever do.

Science can provide a lot of reasonable answers....Religions cannot and do not provide any reasonable answers. Religions confuse and are counter to progress.

[Higgs_bosun]

It's nice that you have a faith, albeit not a religious one... It's also ironic that you're belief in science ever providing the key to the Universe is potentially as naive as me believing in God

This mentality is sick...as are your comments about atheist scum. Do you write muslim protest banners for a living by any chance? Faith in facts is not quite the same as faith without facts you cretin!

[StickyEnd]

If you read Dawkins descriptions carefully, that would make you a 6. Maybe 6+

Sticky..I don't require a benchmark for my lack of faith because I don't have any... I'm one of those sort of atheists...you know, god and religions are imagined. I was also an atheist long before Dawkins burst on the scene. Hope that settles the matter.

Higgsy forget the name Dawkins for a moment. My point was that on that list, 7 was absolute certainty to the point that no contrary evidence would be considered. To claim to be a 7+ would be equivalent to a fundy belief statement.

[Jockharvey]

When did I become an atheist? I was born an atheist, as are all human beings; religious belief or ‘brainwashing’ is adopted because of indoctrination by those who have influence over you. I suppose it is the same as the indoctrination of those young innocents who, due to the propaganda of the Mullahs genuinely believe that they are doing their gods work by blowing themselves and others to bits; and just prior to pressing the button really believed they were going to their heaven and into the presence of their God. It is the same as for all other human beings who have been indoctrinated into some kind of god worship all over the world; eight billion people worshiping almost as many gods.

My mum died in childbirth in 1940, dad in the navy, brought up for some years by Grandmother. My Gran was religious but she never tried to impose her beliefs on me, ever.

It was only when I got to the RC school that I was subjected to the propaganda, which even at four years of age I did not accept, I needed proof, but never got anything that convinced me. Even in my young diminutive brain I could see the whole thing was a charade, it to me was a great big game designed to keep me under control, and for me to do the bidding of my teachers priests and the like.

At the start of every lesson, we had to stand up and say at least one prayer, I remained silent, but I would look around and I could see that I was not the only one. Most of the teachers had a habit of interrupting parts of the lesson with biblical stuff, still trying to brainwash the kids. My mates in the protestant schools had none of this forced on them and the truth be told, they were better educated than we were, achieved better results, and subsequently got better jobs, these results are verifiable.

When I left school at fifteen I was still fully convinced that it was a great scam perpetrated by people who had some devious motive for seducing me into their great fairy story. The odd thing was, even then; I knew that it was just a great scam brought about by the indoctrination that they themselves had and probably their forefathers had going back a very long time.

I wanted proof, I dearly wished that I had proof; it would have made my young life almost tolerable. There was no proof; there can never be any proof of a myth except in the minds of the young put there by fanatical propaganda. I am sure that the propagandist’s meant well, but that is now no consolation, too much damage has already been done and that will continue to be the case for the foreseeable future.

It was only when I got into the Army at sixteen that I began to see what a great sham the religious teachings of my youth were. So many events; both military and otherwise over the next twenty two years cemented my atheist beliefs firmly in my mind, my beliefs continued after that until today. I absolutely know that I was right all along, and to the extent that to me it is all a big joke and the people who still believe in a ‘god’ have to be pitied, no scorned, it is a mental; problem that should have been wiped out hundreds of years ago.

Only people who could produce scientifically proven irrefutable evidence in a God should be allowed to preach. Others should be punished or incarcerated for destroying other human minds.

‘People who preach Gods are somewhat like Hitler, but without the charismatic charm’

[Higgs_bosun]

Higgsy forget the name Dawkins for a moment. My point was that on that list, 7 was absolute certainty to the point that no contrary evidence would be considered. To claim to be a 7+ would be equivalent to a fundy belief statement.

No problem....

[Higgs_bosun]

When did I become an atheist? I was born an atheist, as are all human beings; religious belief or ‘brainwashing’ is adopted because of indoctrination by those who have influence over you. I suppose it is the same as the indoctrination of those young innocents who, due to the propaganda of the Mullahs genuinely believe that they are doing their gods work by blowing themselves and others to bits; and just prior to pressing the button really believed they were going to their heaven and into the presence of their God. It is the same as for all other human beings who have been indoctrinated into some kind of god worship all over the world; eight billion people worshiping almost as many gods.

My mum died in childbirth in 1940, dad in the navy, brought up for some years by Grandmother. My Gran was religious but she never tried to impose her beliefs on me, ever.

It was only when I got to the RC school that I was subjected to the propaganda, which even at four years of age I did not accept, I needed proof, but never got anything that convinced me. Even in my young diminutive brain I could see the whole thing was a charade, it to me was a great big game designed to keep me under control, and for me to do the bidding of my teachers priests and the like.

At the start of every lesson, we had to stand up and say at least one prayer, I remained silent, but I would look around and I could see that I was not the only one. Most of the teachers had a habit of interrupting parts of the lesson with biblical stuff, still trying to brainwash the kids. My mates in the protestant schools had none of this forced on them and the truth be told, they were better educated than we were, achieved better results, and subsequently got better jobs, these results are verifiable.

When I left school at fifteen I was still fully convinced that it was a great scam perpetrated by people who had some devious motive for seducing me into their great fairy story. The odd thing was, even then; I knew that it was just a great scam brought about by the indoctrination that they themselves had and probably their forefathers had going back a very long time.

I wanted proof, I dearly wished that I had proof; it would have made my young life almost tolerable. There was no proof; there can never be any proof of a myth except in the minds of the young put there by fanatical propaganda. I am sure that the propagandist’s meant well, but that is now no consolation, too much damage has already been done and that will continue to be the case for the foreseeable future.

It was only when I got into the Army at sixteen that I began to see what a great sham the religious teachings of my youth were. So many events; both military and otherwise over the next twenty two years cemented my atheist beliefs firmly in my mind, my beliefs continued after that until today. I absolutely know that I was right all along, and to the extent that to me it is all a big joke and the people who still believe in a ‘god’ have to be pitied, no scorned, it is a mental; problem that should have been wiped out hundreds of years ago.

Only people who could produce scientifically proven irrefutable evidence in a God should be allowed to preach. Others should be punished or incarcerated for destroying other human minds.

‘People who preach Gods are somewhat like Hitler, but without the charismatic charm’

See you in hell Jock...unless our eyeballs are fried in first few seconds that is. Hang on...our nervous systems will be incinerated too. But that must mean we are resurrected to suffer it again and again for eternity, as those that know about these things tell us.... Fcuk me Jock, that gay boy Jesus was only resurrected once...we are going to be super messiahs mate. And the devil must have amazing powers...wonder where, why and how devils get such power. Unless hell is just a load of bollocks.....mmmm.....it's a tricky one. Guidance from Cogi, Cuddles or some other expert on the matter is required. Perhaps I'm thinking too much like a child as I used to think when I was originally told about these things verbatim by responsible adults...I'm still trying to reason out stuff in the same way...

Of course hell is not actually under the Earths crust...that was just for simplicty....and hell is really not a fire...that is just a metaphor....the devil is not a spirit or spook....devils are metaphors too for bad shit. Gods are probably metaphors for good stuff like chocolate... life after death is actually the present. Science tends to point us away from metaphors and the supernatural...gulp. As a child I apparently discovered that religion is relentless nonsence...a discovery beyond the imagination of those great figures from history. But I guess they couldn't join up the dots for some reason...

Cogi...Help! The delusions are coming back!

[Excognito]

This mentality is sick...as are your comments about atheist scum. Do you write muslim protest banners for a living by any chance? Faith in facts is not quite the same as faith without facts you cretin!

Who? Me, Your Honour? Start the fight? Never lifted a finger.

[Excognito]

...As a child I apparently discovered that religion is relentless nonsence...

Cogi...Help! The delusions are coming back!

Certainly. You spelt 'nonsense' incorrectly.

... There are lots of things that children 'discover' that subsequently turn out to be false.

[Excognito]

Can you tell me what my delusional philosophy actually is first? Then I may attempt to reason with your church leader in Westboro...deal?

Well, your trans-absolute certainty will make a good starter for ten and then just take it from there. ... or are you just one of these sad old atheists who pontificate about arresting religious leaders and then just stand around having a good old moan when the real event goes on as if they never existed?

[Excognito]

I thought he just flew his reindeer-driven sleigh along the 5th dimension with velocity being determined by rate of change wrt to the 2nd time dimension along a line of constant local time in our 4D spacetime? That way all of the warp speed objections disappear and there is no need for Rudolph to carry hypersonic shockwave damping technology.

There are some who think that the Universe splits off some of the infinite number of superimposed Santa's and adjusts the local quantum field properties to have them pop into existence for sufficient time to deliver presents before returning to their normal complex entangled state.

Of course, there are yet others who swear blind that the Universal Computing Engine simply runs multiple instances of Santa.exe in response to a 'Christmas Day' event.

This is how you fudge every tenet of your faith Cogi...

OOIC, have you actually read the 'Is Psychology a Science' article you pointed us to?