CVF and Carrier Strike thread

[Cold_Collation]

P2000, interesting comments about the efforts that went into costing the switch.

I thought that every time we looked at this B came out cheaper, across the whole of the defence spectrum.

Then, all of a sudden the C become the option de jour.

But if so much effort went into the costing study BEFORE the switch why then did we need a multi million pounds 18 month study to do just that i.e. confirm how much it would cost.

Am puzzled

Perhaps someone with closer knowledge can add, but wasn't a large chunk of the cost 'thing' down to the supposed 'danger' (and therefore additional training burden/cost) of operating conventional aircraft from ships (... it's much easier to 'stop and land', than 'land and stop') which was held by some as little more than justification for the RAF getting a direct Harrier replacement?

-B significantly severely limits our non-F-35 (ie. non-pointy-strikey-fighty) options, as noted elsewhere.

[meridian]

-B significantly severely limits our non-F-35 (ie. non-pointy-strikey-fighty) options, as noted elsewhere.

Compared to what

[P2000]

God bless the USN. Doing their best to make MOD / RN, and the decisions on CVF, Type 45, Astute and Type 26 look like a coherent procurement strategy.

Zumwalt and FCS are an utter farce.

@Meridian re costings. I'm perfectly prepared to believe that the arguments on cost were spun to cover MOD's blushes, especially as at the time it looked like -B was the version likely to get the chop.

Either way, operating 1 (or 2) massive LPHs from 2020 is going to be a major embarrassment.

[Cold_Collation]

Compared to what

Not compared to, but complemented with. Such as a fixed-wing AEW or COD capability. No cats or traps means a rotary solution.

[GLOCK09]

Switching back to STOVL variant of a design that should have been strangled at birth would be the least
desirable option… especially after throwing 40 years of VTOL experience down the drain and gifting the
USMC with a GR7/9 fleet that was at various stages of an upgrade.

If the unthinkable happens, and F-35C is compromised by hook skip problems, it is still hard to reconcile
how hanging ordnance on the wing pylons of an F-35B designed as a low observable stealth fighter, then
putting it into the overhead for close air support, is prudent use of an asset that will cost over £100 million.



There are three options.

Option A.

Tranche 3 Typhoon for the RAF (with the emphasis on defence of UK airspace) and if Britain must engage
in expeditionary ventures around the world, then the Super Hornet would be a very good fit for the FAA.

Option B.

F-35C is an unnecessary replacement for RAF Typhoon, and will be too expensive to regenerate the FAA.

Option C.

F-35B is a design which compromises range payload performance in favour of a complex lift system that
is dead weight for all phases of flight except short take off and vertical landing, when all mechanical lift
systems must work in sequence with 100% reliability, 100% of the time.

----

The decision on UK/JSF purchasing schedules has been deferred until 2015, which is the year of the next
general election. It is also the year that Boeing may close their production line for the Super Hornet.

[Cold_Collation]

Switching back to STOVL variant of a design that should have been strangled at birth would be the least
desirable option… especially after throwing 40 years of VTOL experience down the drain and gifting the
USMC with a GR7/9 fleet that was at various stages of an upgrade.

If the unthinkable happens, and F-35C is compromised by hook skip problems, it is still hard to reconcile
how hanging ordnance on the wing pylons of an F-35B designed as a low observable stealth fighter, then
putting it into the overhead for close air support, is prudent use of an asset that will cost over £100 million.



There are three options.

Option A.

Tranche 3 Typhoon for the RAF (with the emphasis on defence of UK airspace) and if Britain must engage
in expeditionary ventures around the world, then the Super Hornet would be a very good fit for the FAA.

Option B.

F-35C is an unnecessary replacement for RAF Typhoon, and will be too expensive to regenerate the FAA.

Option C.

F-35B is a design which compromises range payload performance in favour of a complex lift system that
is dead weight for all phases of flight except short take off and vertical landing, when all mechanical lift
systems must work in sequence with 100% reliability, 100% of the time.

----

The decision on UK/JSF purchasing schedules has been deferred until 2015, which is the year of the next
general election. It is also the year that Boeing may close their production line for the Super Hornet.

I can't get over how pictures of 'dirty' F-35s are being presented as positive progress in the test programme of a stealthy aircraft. Nonsense from beginning to end. What do you gain over an (dynamically more capable?) F/A-18 which is similarly festooned and hugely less expensive?

[redshift]

God bless the USN. Doing their best to make MOD / RN, and the decisions on CVF, Type 45, Astute and Type 26 look like a coherent procurement strategy.

Type 45 is a success, at least from a U.S. perspective. Not a bad job at all!

[jagman]

Type 45 is a success, at least from a U.S. perspective. Not a bad job at all!

Splendid piece of kit (ignoring the fitted for but not with issue), absolutely fantastic for defending a shiney new aircraft carrier from air attack. Sadly we haven't got any aircraft carriers to protect but thats beside the point!

Shame the RN are only getting half the original quantity

[sunnoficarus]

Splendid piece of kit (ignoring the fitted for but not with issue), absolutely fantastic for defending a shiney new aircraft carrier from air attack. Sadly we haven't got any aircraft carriers to protect but thats beside the point!

Shame the RN are only getting half the original quantity

Ah yes, but the number was cut in half to pay for two brand new shiny huge aircraft carriers armed to the teeth with dozens of brand new shiny planes…



…oh wait!

[jagman]

Ah yes, but the number was cut in half to pay for two brand new shiny huge aircraft carriers armed to the teeth with dozens of brand new shiny planes…



…oh wait!

Ah well, what would we do without politicians to screw everything up?