ARmy Rumour SErvice

**the_boy_syrup** · 08-01-2012, 12:58

Originally Posted by Westpoint

IMO we need an in-house Wheeled Vehicle R&D Establishment charged with the fast development of building proto-type trucks which provide protection against IEDs and other threats which may materialise.

We need to escape from the clutches of some of the big defence manufacturers.

Slightly of topic I know but are you aware of the history of the WW2 American Jeep

Basically most people think it's a Willy's jeep with Ford produced spin offs
What actually happend was when the U.S Govermet offered out the tender which was met by Bantam Moter Cars who produced the Jeep as we know it (nobody else came near it).
The Goverment handed the plans to Ford and Willys and inveited them to re tender
Both turned up with teh identical vehicle with some minor changes (slat radiator cover etc)
The Goverment tested it decided on some changes and then reissued the plans to their own specification (no real changes just made the plans theirs)
The Goverment decided Bantam couldn't handle the order and gave the contract to Ford and Willys Bantam went bankrupt.
Ford and Willys actually fought it out in court as to who owned the rights to the Jeep

The point is I agree with you never mind Landrover etc giving us a model and saying this is as goo as it gets we should design it and then hand it out saying we want this and if you can't do it we'll get someone who can.

**Westpoint** · 08-01-2012, 13:19

Originally Posted by the_boy_syrup

Slightly of topic I know but are you aware of the history of the WW2 American Jeep

Basically most people think it's a Willy's jeep with Ford produced spin offs
What actually happend was when the U.S Govermet offered out the tender which was met by Bantam Moter Cars who produced the Jeep as we know it (nobody else came near it).
The Goverment handed the plans to Ford and Willys and inveited them to re tender
Both turned up with teh identical vehicle with some minor changes (slat radiator cover etc)
The Goverment tested it decided on some changes and then reissued the plans to their own specification (no real changes just made the plans theirs)
The Goverment decided Bantam couldn't handle the order and gave the contract to Ford and Willys Bantam went bankrupt.
Ford and Willys actually fought it out in court as to who owned the rights to the Jeep

The point is I agree with you never mind Landrover etc giving us a model and saying this is as goo as it gets we should design it and then hand it out saying we want this and if you can't do it we'll get someone who can.

Thank you for that.

I believe that One of the Land Rovers was some sort of Joint Venture between the company and MOD. And that Land Rover had to pay MOD a certain % on each Land Rover ( Defender or similar ) sold. Commercial Exploitatation is the name for that sort of deal.

**rickshaw-major** · 09-01-2012, 07:27

Originally Posted by Westpoint

I went to the IWM at Duxford in September. Some of the radio experts in one radio equipment area were comparing the WW2 german equipment with the British equipment, and saying that the german kit was built to last. But in those days the British kit was built to last for the life expectancy of the machine it was going into. That, I believe, is were we are going wrong these days. We have got R&D establishments like RSRE RAE ( have we still got AVRE? ) IMO we need an in-house Wheeled Vehicle R&D Establishment charged with the fast development of building proto-type trucks which provide protection against IEDs and other threats which may materialise.

We need to escape from the clutches of some of the big defence manufacturers.

We used to have. The idiot Rifkind started the privatisation of these facilities and Blairs lot finioshed the process. I give you Qinetiq. Lots of the specialist R& D facilities have now gone. So have the experts.

Oh look look he's quoting Wiki

The article is mostly very good. I know - I worked for these numbnuts for a while. Dick Turpin weep. They hung you for less than this rip off of the taxpayer. Note the 25 year R&D contract for Test and Evaluation Services.

Qinetiq - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

BTW this is non-political. Both of the major parties were involved in this clusterfuck.

**One_of_the_strange** · 09-01-2012, 09:12

Originally Posted by Westpoint

I went to the IWM at Duxford in September. Some of the radio experts in one radio equipment area were comparing the WW2 german equipment with the British equipment, and saying that the german kit was built to last. But in those days the British kit was built to last for the life expectancy of the machine it was going into. That, I believe, is were we are going wrong these days. We have got R&D establishments like RSRE RAE ( have we still got AVRE? ) IMO we need an in-house Wheeled Vehicle R&D Establishment charged with the fast development of building proto-type trucks which provide protection against IEDs and other threats which may materialise.

We need to escape from the clutches of some of the big defence manufacturers.

To be fair to my employers defence manufacturers tend to deliver what they are asked for; and when the customer demands something engineered for 25 years, plus spares, plus all the logs work and so on - that's what they get. We know they'll end up junking it or upgrading it and that their procurement specification is fantasy where operational use is concerned - but as we like getting paid we give the customer what they ask for. I know, I know, how dare we ?

The MoD prides itself on being an "expert customer"; it exercises great control over the details of what it gets, and reaps the rewards, good and bad.

And the R&D agencies you refer to do not exist any more. Indeed, UK industry is losing many skill sets as procurement timelines stretch out and we buy from overseas. You get what you pay for, and today that means we pay nothing to get nothing.