ARmy Rumour SErvice

The crabs are starting to get angry gents.

CTD I laughed when I first read that on pprnue but its even more fitting here!


Crabtastic the sorry state of the FAA in 39-40 was due to the RAF - it was well within budget and native RN demands to upgrade the FAA to a top level during the 1930s (such was the cheapness of aircraft design and construction at the time).

Force Z would not have sailed had Churchill listened to advice. This is a man who was convinced the Japanese would not attack and was equally convinced that they would give up at a show of force. Force Z was a gamble that backfired NOT a representation of military doctrine or the understanding of airpower at the time.

Finally force Z had shoddy landbased aircover because the RAF had not sent sufficient assets to the theatre AND had not liased with the army for the placement of airfields which they plonked all over the place in indefensible positions which led to them being of better use to the Japanese than the RAF.

Originally Posted by vampireuk

The crabs are starting to get angry gents.

All you need to do is whisper the two little words, "utterly, utterly" and just watch their little faces turn red and the steam start to come out of their ears.

Never fails

Originally Posted by Dunservin

Ten countries have aircraft carriers. See here.

Re Dunkirk: 338,226 soldiers were evacuated in the nine-day operation organised by the RN despite overwhelming German air superiority.

Re Hitler's planned invasion of Britain in 1940: This says it better than I can:

Why Operation Sealion Wouldn't Work


Re Argentinean use of Stanley for FJ: Sorry to quote Wiki but it should suffice for the ignorant:

Escalation of the air war

see this: Would Hitler really have invaded Britain? - World War 2 Talk for an ongoing discussion on Op Sealion.

Re: Dunkirk - The RN had to withdraw its destroyers as it couldn't afford to lose them in bombing raids, the lift was completed by (fairly obviously) small boats, although given as a success for morale it was pretty much a disaster for the British Army.

Fast jets? if memory serves me Learjets were using the airfield before the conflict and I meant the Douglas A-4 Skyhawk not the Dassault-Breguet Super Étendard (the Skyhawk was capable of using the airfield fully bombed up).

Originally Posted by pandaplodder

Re: Dunkirk - The RN had to withdraw its destroyers as it couldn't afford to lose them in bombing raids, the lift was completed by (fairly obviously) small boats, although given as a success for morale it was pretty much a disaster for the British Army..

RN Losses Operation Dynamo;


Grafton, sunk by U-62 on 29 May;
Grenade, sunk by air attack off the east pier at Dunkirk on 29 May;
Wakeful, sunk by a torpedo from the Schnellboot (E-boat) S-30 on 29 May;
Basilisk, Havant and Keith, sunk by air attack off the beaches on 1 June.


The last RN Destroyer to leave Dunkirk was HMS Shakiri that left the mole about two hours before German troops entered Dunkirk.

Operation Sealion

Is pretty much the best essay on the subject.

That thread is largely arse (with people arguing tit for tat on population resistance and morale instead of physical assets) with some gems but it's interesting focus is whether or not Hitler actually intended to invade, not the success of an invasion.

Originally Posted by pandaplodder

see this: Would Hitler really have invaded Britain? - World War 2 Talk for an ongoing discussion on Op Sealion.

Re: Dunkirk - The RN had to withdraw its destroyers as it couldn't afford to lose them in bombing raids, the lift was completed by (fairly obviously) small boats, although given as a success for morale it was pretty much a disaster for the British Army.

No the destroyers were getting troops off right untill the end. In fact i believe more were taken off by the Mole than the actual beaches. It was a disaster as any retreat would be.

The Dunkirk 'little ships' were needed and used to ferry tps from shallow water to the destroyers (destroyers drew more water than a standing Pongo) and their own boats (one small motor cutter and one oared whaler) were too small to be much use when each ship was trying to collect hundreds of men.

Read all about it, 'Full Cycle' by rear Admiral WS Chalmers.

Window to HMS Havant in Havant church.