Originally Posted by meridian

You may have seen my previous posts on the A400, I am actually a firm believer and the mantra that more C17's and C130J's kind of misses the point completely.

Have a read here for a reasonable rundown

http://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/2009/0...ike-the-a400m/

There is also no doubt that the economic climate means that Governments will get a battering if they start cancelling native projects which have a significant job element and buying stuff from overseas which results in zero tax income and zero jobs (which also has of course tax income attached). If they cancel it the people who once contributed now become yet another drain in the form of unemployment benefits.

Anyone who thinks this is about an aircraft are wrong, it politics writ large

(My bold) And if the other 6 partners all decide to cancel, where does that leave the UK? Of course it's politics: politics at the international level MORE than the domestic level.

The comments at the link you posted are biased tosh.

Hey dont shoot the messenger!

I thought it was reasonably balanced, arguments for...

Size and weight of vehicles in service or planned to be
Commercial issues
Performance uplift from a C130K

I cant disagree with any of these and I think the proposal to get rid of the C130J's and replace with A400 also sounds sensible as long as some smaller aircraft were also introduced like someone mentioned earlier, a C27 or maybe even smaller. The article also warns against future over ambitious multi national projects that are poltical vanity driven and I think we can all agree to this.


Jihad
I dont feel confident enough about decisions made by lots of people I don't know to have a bet. Why don't we do an 'each way' and chuck £25 in the pot each!

Jerries not looking too keen and they have the largest order

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...610732,00.html

and

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...610732,00.html

Now, the German air force fears that it could be 2014 before the first A400M arrives. That, said Lieutenant General Klaus-Peter Stieglitz in the Financial Times Deutschland, would be a "disastrous development."

Inside the Defense Ministry, alternatives to the A400M are already being looked into. "We aren't married to Airbus," said the high-ranking air force officer... Were the German military to cancel its order, it would be difficult for the project to survive. Germany is the plane's largest customer, accounting for 60 of the 190 orders that have been placed.

But Airbus too is weighing its options. "The way things are going now, it makes no sense to continue. Period,"

Originally Posted by meridian

Jihad
I dont feel confident enough about decisions made by lots of people I don't know to have a bet.

:D

Originally Posted by meridian

Why don't we do an 'each way' and chuck £25 in the pot each!

Done!


Chicken.

The boxheads are in as much sh1t as us, their Transalls are falling to bits but at least they don't use them for anything except air shows

I could see it being cancelled but then I can also see it muddling through, who knows what will happen

Regardless, we need a short term solution I think we can all agree with that


Cluck Cluck

Originally Posted by meridian

Hey dont shoot the messenger!

I didn't. I said the comments on the site were biased and tosh.

Originally Posted by meridian

I thought it was reasonably balanced, arguments for...

Size and weight of vehicles in service or planned to be
Commercial issues
Performance uplift from a C130K

I cant disagree with any of these and I think the proposal to get rid of the C130J's and replace with A400 also sounds sensible as long as some smaller aircraft were also introduced like someone mentioned earlier, a C27 or maybe even smaller.

Why get rid of the C-130J. Other than the C-17, it's the newest aircraft in the transport fleet. And a bloody good workhorse.

For the UK, the A400M was sized around FRES - just. And where is FRES now? Hmmmm! Son-of-FRES is getting bigger and heavier and already beyond A400M capability.

Commercial issues such as?

A400M is better than C-130K. No argument with that. But is it worth the money that it is expected to cost? What else could you get for that amount? Work the numbers and you'll realise that the A400M was an expensive EU job creation scheme and political stitch-up.

Originally Posted by meridian

The article also warns against future over ambitious multi national projects that are poltical vanity driven and I think we can all agree to this.

But also suggests UK Plc pour even more dosh into the A400M "over ambitious multi national ... political vanity driven" project! What does the author want????

Originally Posted by meridian

The boxheads are in as much sh1t as us, their Transalls are falling to bits but at least they don't use them for anything except air shows

And running their Afghan airbridge!!!!

They've got 8 or 9 based in Termez/Masar i Sharif.

IMHO,Britain should have kept well clear of the A400M from the start.

In 1995,when 25 C-130J and 25 A400M were ordered,there was critism of the decision to order Herks,but 14 years later here we are with all 25 C-130J in service for years,and the 25 RAF A400M still on the order book for delivery sometime before 2030.

One thinks of brewerys and p*ssups and the inability to arrange said.

Originally Posted by whitecity

Originally Posted by meridian

The boxheads are in as much sh1t as us, their Transalls are falling to bits but at least they don't use them for anything except air shows

And running their Afghan airbridge!!!!

They've got 8 or 9 based in Termez/Masar i Sharif.

Aye all those beer, wine and sausage resupply runs and the odd casvac of an obese herman with sunstroke. Just as well they don't need more ammo flown in.....

I think it suggests replacing the C130J with A400 as the C130J goes out of service not before.

The A400 was sized around many things but at the top end it was the eight wheeled vehicles a la VBCI, Pirahna, Pandure etc etc that were all the rage. FRES was included in that trend as as you say, that seems to have been kicked into the weeds now even though no one will actually say that.

Can the A400 carry Mastiff, what is the son of FRES anyway

Is it worth the money, now thats an altogether more interesting question with no easy answers and this can be said of many home grown v overseas equipments. Did someone mention swings and roundabouts.

See what you are saying about the last bit, does sound contradictory