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**lanky** · 05-09-2007, 21:56

I thought that the point of amphibious landings was that you can choose where to attack, ie: where the defences will be relatively weak.

**Dragstrip** · 08-09-2007, 06:35

Originally Posted by lanky

I thought that the point of amphibious landings was that you can choose where to attack, ie: where the defences will be relatively weak.

Actually, one of the major disadvantages of amphib is exactly that you often cannot really choose where you attack. There will only be a few places where it is possible to land and these places are likely to be heavily defended by the enemy.

**EX_STAB** · 08-09-2007, 07:42

Originally Posted by Dragstrip

Originally Posted by lanky

I thought that the point of amphibious landings was that you can choose where to attack, ie: where the defences will be relatively weak.

Actually, one of the major disadvantages of amphib is exactly that you often cannot really choose where you attack. There will only be a few places where it is possible to land and these places are likely to be heavily defended by the enemy.

Hence, if you need to do it, an armoured capability seems pretty obvious.

**dutybooty** · 08-09-2007, 08:26

Ex Stab, what exactly is your back ground/makes you such an authority on the issue?
Viking is not an armoured fighting vehicle and really should not be discussed in the same sentence as WR/CR2 - it merely provides protected mobility (primarily from IDF and small arms) and is not supposed to be "getting in the mixer" - basically, think of it as a taxi, albeit one that will go almost anywhere.
Before anyone says anything yes i am well aware that Vikings in the 'Stan are routinely getting in direct fire contacts but they are considerably different to the bog standard wagon that rolls straight out of Hagglunds and should still not be referred to as an AFV - stand off weapons platform at best.
Re the original question US LCACs (landing craft air cushions) are capable of placing an Abrams on the beach but only in fair weather, however we only have LCAC (light) for personnel. Anyone who had anything to do with Ex Aurora may seem to recall 4 x CR2 working with 42 Cdo RM....wonder how they got ashore...

**EX_STAB** · 08-09-2007, 08:38

Originally Posted by dutybooty

Ex Stab, what exactly is your back ground/makes you such an authority on the issue?
Viking is not an armoured fighting vehicle and really should not be discussed in the same sentence as WR/CR2 - it merely provides protected mobility (primarily from IDF and small arms) and is not supposed to be "getting in the mixer" - basically, think of it as a taxi, albeit one that will go almost anywhere.
Before anyone says anything yes i am well aware that Vikings in the 'Stan are routinely getting in direct fire contacts but they are considerably different to the bog standard wagon that rolls straight out of Hagglunds and should still not be referred to as an AFV - stand off weapons platform at best.
Re the original question US LCACs (landing craft air cushions) are capable of placing an Abrams on the beach but only in fair weather, however we only have LCAC (light) for personnel. Anyone who had anything to do with Ex Aurora may seem to recall 4 x CR2 working with 42 Cdo RM....wonder how they got ashore...

Err, where did I say I was an authority on the issue? I'd agree that Viking is not a "proper" armoured vehicle, in fact I said as much earlier in this thread. Perhaps it would be worth you taking another look.
As to how the CR2s got ashore on Ex Aurora, you seem to be making my point for me.

**checkgear** · 26-09-2007, 15:59

Having served on both the LPD and LPH I can confirm that we do have the capability to land MBT's on a beach! And did during Aurora.

Both Albion and Bulwark have 4 LCU's that can ferry and land MBT's if required. That is why they have the 'Tank Deck' onboard. Also the new Bay Class LSL's have 1 LCU each and can land MBT's as they follow on in the second wave. The LPD's also have 4 LCVP's which can also land troops or Landrover and trailer sized vehicles direct from their docks. The LPH (Ocean) requires the use of a mexe to load their vehicles although it can/does carry its own for use with its 4 LCVP's.

**Dragstrip** · 27-09-2007, 05:27

[quote="checkgear"]Also the new Bay Class LSL's have 1 LCU each and can land MBT's as they follow on in the second wave. [quote]

One minor correction, if I may. I think that the new Bay Class LSD(A)s (they're not 'LSLs' (for Landing Ship Dock (Aux)) and named Lyme Bay, Largs Bay, Mounts Bay and Cardigan Bay (and affectionately known in certain circles as the Lager and Lime class)) are 'fitted for' LCU rather than with; ie, the are LCU capable (indeed, designed for) but, I'm fairly sure (but not absolutely certain), that they do not actally 'have' them.

**checkgear** · 27-09-2007, 15:38

Quite right. Sorry end of a long day. No doubt if 1 was deploying operationally then an LCU would be found! Latest rumour within the 'Dark Blue' is they may end up as HMS and leave the RFA. That would be interesting!

**CarpeDiem** · 27-09-2007, 15:46

Don't forget, guys, that 3 CDO have a Recce rgt designated to support them (QDG IIRC) and I'm fairly certain we can land those.

Although they may not QUITE meet the definition of armour that you were talking about!