ARmy Rumour SErvice

**Sammy The Cat** · 31-12-2006, 17:52

I have nothing but respect for ATs and ATOs - but no more or less respect than I have for Suppliers, Drivers, Petroleum Operators, Postal and Courier Operators, Maritime Engineers, Ocean Watchkeepers, System Analysts or Pioneers.

You are more than likely right that the ATO who told me that was being modest - thinking about it, all the ATOs I know (don't know many ATs) are pretty modest guys (and a little bit off the wall). My point is that an ATO who spends his day investigating accidents which will lead to better safety in the production of ammunition is no less valued than the ATO who spends his day filling his pants at the prospect of being blown up.

I can only speak for the ATOs that I have met - but I guess that they would agree. If you don't agree then fair enough.

**Bottleosmoke** · 01-01-2007, 21:19

Originally Posted by Sammy The Cat

I have nothing but respect for ATs and ATOs - but no more or less respect than I have for Suppliers, Drivers, Petroleum Operators, Postal and Courier Operators, Maritime Engineers, Ocean Watchkeepers, System Analysts or Pioneers.

No respect for chefs then? Not that I am one. Glad you mentioned Pioneers though. as you made need one to dig you out of this hole that you have created!

**Nords** · 02-01-2007, 10:30

Originally Posted by Sammy The Cat

Originally Posted by Bottleosmoke

GB Im with you. I wonder what Capt N thinks about" painting by numbers".

I was an ATO who told me that EOD was painting by numbers as all the basic procedures are written down - and a "proper" one as you would claim. As for what Capt N would think, I don't know, as I understand it he sustained his injuries due to standing on a pressure mat, he was just unlucky. It was nothing to do with his undoubted prowess in bomb disposal.

EOD is painting by numbers under common palance, most mean CMD when they say EOD. IEDD, like CMD, is a subset under EOD but requires a little (okay, a lot) more intelligence and knowledge which is why AT do it. Capt N is an extremely brave man, who is facing life now in this vein, just as he did before that incident. I personally think it wrong for anyone to assume what he may, or may not, think about anything EOD related, you are using his name in vain.

The real 'AT' are the ones in depots or with 6 / 9 Regt, I'm sure most 11 Regt bods would agree. The shame of it is, the Corps are so short of ATs that you can spend your life in 11 with no chance to further your all-round AT knowledge by having a bit of time off a pager and playing APB cricket!!!

**Sammy The Cat** · 02-01-2007, 21:53

Originally Posted by Bottleosmoke

Originally Posted by Sammy The Cat

I have nothing but respect for ATs and ATOs - but no more or less respect than I have for Suppliers, Drivers, Petroleum Operators, Postal and Courier Operators, Maritime Engineers, Ocean Watchkeepers, System Analysts or Pioneers.

No respect for chefs then? Not that I am one. Glad you mentioned Pioneers though. as you made need one to dig you out of this hole that you have created!

Sorry BS (and any reading Chefs), didn't mean to miss the chefs off - the list was not meant to be authoratative and merely an illustration that one CEG should not be more or less valued than another on the grounds of its "sexiness".

**Sir Rowley Birkin QC** · 03-01-2007, 01:41

Christ on a stick. Surely we - as a corps and a forum - can do better than this................

**Sammy The Cat** · 03-01-2007, 04:35

Originally Posted by Sir Rowley Birkin QC

Christ on a stick. Surely we - as a corps and a forum - can do better than this................

Go on then...... let's hear it

**Ford_Prefect** · 03-01-2007, 18:07

I remember when the threads on here were interesting and evocative. Threads that were suitably contentious that the old guard actually signed up to poo poo them. These days, even when you start threads that say “I blame the ATs for making this site boring” then boring ATs come on to enthral us with their age old chat; Jesus I was more enrapt by Baggy and Marky’s Rad Op love in!

Also, whatever happened to the real special needs cases? Where is ‘evil one’ with his plan for a federation web site that contravenes every single paragraph of JSP 440? It gets to something when Helfyrr’s posts start having a degree of resonance and act as a welcome punctuation to Outstanding’s inane observations.

I used to really enjoy the rumblings on here, but that was when I still cared and thought that a bit of light sedition might hopefully change something. Potentially ARRSE could have acted as an innovative medium to inform and discuss relevant issues, however, it would seem that the hierarchy within the Corps / Army are happy to read the site but not actually involve themselves (less Polly Oliver). I can’t say I’m surprised, if there is one thing I’ve learnt it is that the validity of one’s opinion is directly proportional to rank they hold. Apparently if someone out ranks you then they are by definition more intelligent, and have more perspective, wisdom, common dog and relevant experience. It is by this logic that Commanders choose not to listen to their subordinates (unless of course they sycophantically agree with views held). For an organisation that allegedly regards people as their greatest resource we tend not to listen to ours.

This forum is pretty representative of the “real” Army in that the people who bother to express an opinion are deluded in one of two ways, either they think they have a good POV or are deluded that anyone will listen. I was mostly in the latter of these categories and after a series of pretty crushing incidents, over a few years, complete disillusionment set in. (Ironically this total apathy was at one stage interpreted and welcomed as compliance by my bosses!) So in answer to Goon Bde’s question I find myself so disenchanted, disheartened and disappointed I choose not to involve myself in any way. I was always told to be worried when Soldiers stop whinging, another fundamental lesson that the hierarchy have forgotten, but then today’s hierarchy are yesterday’s sycophants. Today’s characterless and talent free beige list are tomorrows Unit Commanders.

**really?_fascinating** · 03-01-2007, 19:18

Ford - were you abused as a Troopie? Too much time driving back drunk from the NAAFI, not enough time being a good troop commander? Or was that expressing an opinion and expecting it to be heard? In that case, it was certainly heard!

Could it be you were long on opinion and short on experience? Or perhaps you were right and everyone else was wrong all along?

Now if that does not get a bite, you are surely beyond engaging?

**Danny_Dravot** · 04-01-2007, 22:46

why is the RLC thread so quiet at the min...is everybody still on leave...and what happed to the old contributers....?

Where are Marky and RTFQ these days?

**Nords** · 05-01-2007, 16:02

Originally Posted by Ford_Prefect

... I was mostly in the latter of these categories and after a series of pretty crushing incidents, over a few years, complete disillusionment set in. (Ironically this total apathy was at one stage interpreted and welcomed as compliance by my bosses!) So in answer to Goon Bde’s question I find myself so disenchanted, disheartened and disappointed I choose not to involve myself in any way. I was always told to be worried when Soldiers stop whinging, another fundamental lesson that the hierarchy have forgotten, but then today’s hierarchy are yesterday’s sycophants. Today’s characterless and talent free beige list are tomorrows Unit Commanders.

Do I detect a feeling of no challenge left for you? Why not become the JSP101 (or whatever it is called these days) Guru of your unit and explain to everyone else that Demi-Official letters do not have a full colon after the word 'From' in the title 'From Captain IB Passedsofarover' at the top and other such jolly wheezes.

Why not become the unit H&S advisor, that would soon stop people thinking you are compliance!

...and anyway soldiers always whinge, I'm sure they have stopped just recently. Last bit is a little hard isn't it? Well actually, now you mention it I do think you are completely right, oh yes, perfectly expressed, well done Sir!