Originally Posted by Geordie_Blerk

Look on the bright side, at least you can attempt to get your ridiculously low level of phys upto scratch in the next 6 months or even lose some weight. Some of you may even manage to shape your berets correctly.

Every cloud........................

Can you really see that happening for some people if the only reason they do phys is to qualify for bounty, and have no chance of doing so before the end of the training year? My Bde appears to be on level 3 MATTS anyway, so you basically have to do on the PFT is finish it sometime within 2 hours

and before you call me a bat fastard, I passed mine :P

Guys,
Been following this thread with great interest, having been a SPSI now for over a year and for the record I have loved every minute of it, great lads great spirit etc, BUT

Darwin's first law of evolution, "if something does not adapt and evolve it will become extinct" and I think if you really look hard at yourselves you will find this is the case, especially at the " Old and Bold" as you put it.

At my unit 13 people have deployed in the last 6 years, that is hardly value for money, yes a know that some have volunteered and been rejected but still, when you look at the money invested, not just the MTDs, but the running of your TAC, other wages etc, it just doesn't add up any more. You still have the drinking club/weekend pocket money image and the powers that be have seen this and when money is tight (for forever reason) guess who will get it in the neck.

If anything I hope this will be short term for you and you will learn and look at your own ethos and then move forward as a worthwhile organisation within the whole Armed forces, I really do.

Good luck.

Originally Posted by Unknown_SPSI

Guys,
Been following this thread with great interest, having been a SPSI now for over a year and for the record I have loved every minute of it, great lads great spirit etc, BUT

Darwin's first law of evolution, "if something does not adapt and evolve it will become extinct" and I think if you really look hard at yourselves you will find this is the case, especially at the " Old and Bold" as you put it.

At my unit 13 people have deployed in the last 6 years, that is hardly value for money, yes a know that some have volunteered and been rejected but still, when you look at the money invested, not just the MTDs, but the running of your TAC, other wages etc, it just doesn't add up any more. You still have the drinking club/weekend pocket money image and the powers that be have seen this and when money is tight (for forever reason) guess who will get it in the neck.

If anything I hope this will be short term for you and you will learn and look at your own ethos and then move forward as a worthwhile organisation within the whole Armed forces, I really do.

Good luck.

Surely it rather depends on what your role is? The main requirements are for Inf, Loggies and Medics it seems at the moment, If you're part of 78 High Altitude Anti Aircraft Regiment (or whatever ;) ) you're not going to be on the shopping list for the current war but you might be pretty important in the next one.

You seem to have missed the point of the TA. It's not intended to be a manpower pool for the Regular Army even if that's what it's been used for for the past few years. It's supposed to be another Army.

Afghanistan isn't the only form of war available.

Some very interesting comments in both this and other threads since the weekend leaks.

As the SPSI and other have commented, there are aspects of the TA that are inefficient, and therefore arguably not cost effective.

Some units have not been heavily mobilised in recent years. But several regiments have deployed effectively company minus groups ever 2 years or so, originally for Telic and then Herrick.

If the regular forces did not have the TA to call upon, how would have the field army coped with the shortfall in manpower?

Regarding the inefficiency, in part who is to blame for that?

I would have to point the majority of that to the senior officers and civil servants within the MOD and Whitehall.

I can remember 12 years ago, and even further when there were comments about the TA inefficiencies. Unfortunately many of them are still applicable, because the situation has not been managed.

Neither has the defence spending been managed well. As a result of some MOD/Army organisations badly managing their budgets, the Army is in debt apparently by £1.5 billion . That is some mismanagement of funding even if we were involved in two medium scale operations.

Someone, somewhere has badly managed their spread sheets, and as a result the TA is about to suffer a huge blow.

Note how the Toms will suffer, and not the senior officials, military or otherwise who created this fine mess! Reminds me of a recent case where members of the Waterboard badly managed their finances and so sacked about approx. 150 workers rather than resign themselves. This whole situation would not be so bad if those senior people who have created this mess by poor management of funds resigned, and lost their pension. FFS their pensions would probably pay the MTD budget for 6 months!!

I am aware of quite a few TA soldiers who, has a result of the recession have relied upon their TA pay to assist in their family/personal finances. They may be foolish, but as we have read about, we are in financially difficult times.

The majority of the TA MTD budget is reinvested in the economy in one of two ways...

It is either spent at shops, used to pay home extensions etc, and so benefits the local economy that way.

Or it is placed into a savings scheme, thereby allowing banks to loan the money out. Sure the number of people is small but if the average TA tom is paid #50 a day for 50 days, so they receive approx £2,500 a year extra cash to spend Quite a boast to the local economies...

On another note, next April when ‘normal duties’ return, how long will it take to rebuild the units, to form a coherent unit again, whether on regimental or sub unit level? One poll suggests about 45% of TA soldiers are unlikely to return to the TA.

What incentive do recruits errr sorry Soldiers under training have to continue their training? To Pass out in January, and after a 6 month intensive training regimen or more, to be told congratulations, you passed your course, now go home for four months and come back next financial year (possibly)

This whole escapade sends out a bad signal to all.

Originally Posted by polar

No, the money is unimportant, it's the principal. It’s the betrayal; lack of respect, the army has effectively said it doesn't value the TA.

The above sums it up nicely, the Chief of Staff, have effectively betrayed the TA across the whole board.

They have been told we don’t eed you now. If you don’t need us now, will you need us in the future? Of course they do, history has taught us that lesson numerous occasions, such as The Boar War, WWI, WWII and of course Gulf war I and II. So this is a bloddy short sighted approach.

Better off cancelling a single typhoon fighter IMHO

Sorry to ramble on

Sad_thelad

Originally Posted by Unknown_SPSI

Guys,
Been following this thread with great interest, having been a SPSI now for over a year and for the record I have loved every minute of it, great lads great spirit etc, BUT

Darwin's first law of evolution, "if something does not adapt and evolve it will become extinct" and I think if you really look hard at yourselves you will find this is the case, especially at the " Old and Bold" as you put it.

At my unit 13 people have deployed in the last 6 years, that is hardly value for money, yes a know that some have volunteered and been rejected but still, when you look at the money invested, not just the MTDs, but the running of your TAC, other wages etc, it just doesn't add up any more. You still have the drinking club/weekend pocket money image and the powers that be have seen this and when money is tight (for forever reason) guess who will get it in the neck.

If anything I hope this will be short term for you and you will learn and look at your own ethos and then move forward as a worthwhile organisation within the whole Armed forces, I really do.

Good luck.

For an SPSI it appears you have a very blinkered and narrow minded view of the TA.
You are speaking from experience of your own unit which quite honestly appears to have been quite fortunate in the small numbers it has supplied for operations.!!!
If you feel that the Ta is not cost effective then maybe the first restructuring should take place by having a hard look at all the permanent staff who are all very keen to get a TA posting, I wonder why! for what is known in the regs as a cushty one!
If we need to look at evolving for cost effectiveness then surely we should be looking at the Army as a whole! because I have many friends in the regs whom when not away on ops or postings generally are more part time than the part time soldiers, so I guess we all have our pros and cons! and lets face it we do. Times do change, however different people join both the TA and the Regs for many reasons, personally if I wanted to join a weekend drinking club id have gone to my local, ok the beers not as cheap but.... And guys lets face it the regs arent exactly renowned for their sobrerity are they!! so lets all stop being a bunch of hypocrites and start showing a bit of mutual respect here - ONE ARMY remember

Originally Posted by EX_STAB

Originally Posted by Unknown_SPSI

Guys,
Been following this thread with great interest, having been a SPSI now for over a year and for the record I have loved every minute of it, great lads great spirit etc, BUT

Darwin's first law of evolution, "if something does not adapt and evolve it will become extinct" and I think if you really look hard at yourselves you will find this is the case, especially at the " Old and Bold" as you put it.

At my unit 13 people have deployed in the last 6 years, that is hardly value for money, yes a know that some have volunteered and been rejected but still, when you look at the money invested, not just the MTDs, but the running of your TAC, other wages etc, it just doesn't add up any more. You still have the drinking club/weekend pocket money image and the powers that be have seen this and when money is tight (for forever reason) guess who will get it in the neck.

If anything I hope this will be short term for you and you will learn and look at your own ethos and then move forward as a worthwhile organisation within the whole Armed forces, I really do.

Good luck.

Surely it rather depends on what your role is? The main requirements are for Inf, Loggies and Medics it seems at the moment, If you're part of 78 High Altitude Anti Aircraft Regiment (or whatever ;) ) you're not going to be on the shopping list for the current war but you might be pretty important in the next one.
You seem to have missed the point of the TA. It's not intended to be a manpower pool for the Regular Army even if that's what it's been used for for the past few years. It's supposed to be another Army.

Afghanistan isn't the only form of war available.

Ex,

I see your point and your comments are noted. However, what "next War", "Another Army" for what?, this is what I mean about not evovling. There is no Cold War anymore, nor is there ever likely to be again, our Armed Forces are conducting asymmetric ops all over the place right now, if your not to get invovled now whats the point in your exsistance?
I think you need to read reports like FAS, Army Plan 08, Strategic Defence Review 09 etc and see what the plan is for the structure of the whole Armed forces and the Reserve Forces part in it.

All this talk of the TA's effectiveness relating to the number of soldiers who volunteer to be mobilised assumes that providing soldiers for Ops is the only thing the TA does.

The regular army says it gets enough volunteers each year. If they wanted more, they would ask for more (1) ... or begin compulsory mobilsation (2)...!




(1) if they could afford it
(2) if they were prepared to take the political fallout

Originally Posted by ARTILLERYCHICK

For an SPSI it appears you have a very blinkered and narrow minded view of the TA.
You are speaking from experience of your own unit which quite honestly appears to have been quite fortunate in the small numbers it has supplied for operations.!!!
If you feel that the Ta is not cost effective then maybe the first restructuring should take place by having a hard look at all the permanent staff who are all very keen to get a TA posting, I wonder why! for what is known in the regs as a cushty one!
If we need to look at evolving for cost effectiveness then surely we should be looking at the Army as a whole! because I have many friends in the regs whom when not away on ops or postings generally are more part time than the part time soldiers, so I guess we all have our pros and cons! and lets face it we do. Times do change, however different people join both the TA and the Regs for many reasons, personally if I wanted to join a weekend drinking club id have gone to my local, ok the beers not as cheap but.... And guys lets face it the regs arent exactly renowned for their sobrerity are they!! so lets all stop being a bunch of hypocrites and start showing a bit of mutual respect here - ONE ARMY remember

My bold, I was taking you seriously until this point!

Originally Posted by Unknown_SPSI

....Darwin's first law of evolution, "if something does not adapt and evolve it will become extinct" and I think if you really look hard at yourselves you will find this is the case, especially at the " Old and Bold" as you put it.

At my unit 13 people have deployed in the last 6 years, that is hardly value for money, yes a know that some have volunteered and been rejected but still, when you look at the money invested, not just the MTDs, but the running of your TAC, other wages etc, it just doesn't add up any more. ... luck.

You're not Infantry. This has been the problem - relevance to current ops. Some cap-badges have produced very little. 4 Para, 7 Rifles (& RRV) and London Regt have each produced 300 plus. London Regt has produced 3 coy groups and plenty of IRs. That is an outstanding achievement.

The ability to do the same in future is questionable given this decision but from what I know of those three battalions they'll get round it. Adapt or die. That takes leadership, something they have and perhaps you do not.