Thread: Threats in Trg

MOD EDIT by DISCO
Split and created seperate thread for this query, amazon I will take at face value you are for real with a true concern and not a journo or someone with an axe to grind, do not dissapoint. The thread can run as long as the following caveats are met.

1. It stay on topic
2. Dont post unless you have direct experience in this area or have evidence, no speculation " a mate once said..." This means you luke so STFU.
3. It stays constructive and is not a soap box to sound off

If your post is missing it didnt meet one of the above.



ok folks, I have trawled some of the forums more relevant to new recruits and cant find anything on the subject and I would appreciate some guidance because of the nature of my query (and as a parent)

I won't go into details but, is it normal for army staff to threaten new recruits with physical violence (assault)? ie I will do this to you, that to you. Not that it should make a difference, but from a grown man to a young girl, the threat comes over far worse.

I am aware the army handbook states it is against the rules, amongst other less serious stuff. Given all the bad press in recent years I thought the army had weeded out the bully tactics...or is that n ot the case? Is this normal threatement and behaviour in the British Army these days?

My mate who is currently at deepcut who went to harrogate said they were always getting threatened, and thrown into lockers and punched and kicked n stuff.

But I'm not sure about man onto girl.

now now luke posts like that are very stupid!!

yes we had threats but merely as a rant not an ACTUAL threat and no it's not worth their rank to threaten your cotton wrapped babies!! however at their unit if they screw up it'll happen but trust in phase 1 and 2 they ain't worth the hassle!!

And as for leave you pay for accomodation as that is your place to live but you don't pay for food as you are not consuming. Some of us didn't pay for either on leave however the army realised they lost sooo much money over a room they can't rent out etc..

word to the wise as well Luke, until you've done a bit the lot on here don't need 'my mate' stories!!

Hope that clears things up a bit and yes they probably would be emergency taxed however inform your kids that the JPA pay statement is no where near as clear as the armynet one so that'll prob read better then the printed ones! I'm in my 8th year now and still prefer the old version you get on Armynet.

Any major Q's PM me as i check most evenings and will try help as long as they are not person/corps/regt dependent

Sorry sir

Only tryin to help

Originally Posted by amazon1

ok folks, I have trawled some of the forums more relevant to new recruits and cant find anything on the subject and I would appreciate some guidance because of the nature of my query (and as a parent)

I won't go into details but, is it normal for army staff to threaten new recruits with physical violence (assault)? ie I will do this to you, that to you. Not that it should make a difference, but from a grown man to a young girl, the threat comes over far worse.

I am aware the army handbook states it is against the rules, amongst other less serious stuff. Given all the bad press in recent years I thought the army had weeded out the bully tactics...or is that n ot the case? Is this normal threatement and behaviour in the British Army these days?

Training should be robust. The army are training soldiers to react to orders without question and to make quick operational decisions under extreme circumstances whilst remaining in control. The nature of active service means that soldiers have to be mentally tough and physically strong. Mistakes cannot be countenanced as mistakes will cost lives. That said robust training should not mean bullying. There is a difference between hard robust training and bullying and bullying should not be tolerated.

From your post it appears that your daughter is very new to the army. Be aware when you are speaking to her on the phone that if she is in the very early stages of training she may be experiencing the 'shock' of transformation from the comfortable life of a civvy to the sometimes harsh life of a soldier. Things said by instructors may all seem magnified by the experience of leaving home, learning new skills at a fast pace, being tired and being subjected to a disciplinary regime totally different to what she is used to.

I am just trying to find out if direct threats of assualt are allowed or not. Either they are or they aren't.

Believe me this is no cotton-wrapped baby as someone puts it, and she was under the impression there would be shouting and ordering, all the usual expectations of army life. But not constant individual bullying.

Is robust training 'I will smash your face in with this gun?"

A pile of other stuff too, but so far thats the worst (early days yet mind you).

Morning all. I only found this web site yesterday ... interesting! Our lad joined up 5½ weeks ago now and is due to do his "Pass Off" parade (is that the right term?) - that's the one where they get their cap badges - on Saturday before coming home for a weeks leave. He's at Winchester as a Junior Soldier and has, over the weeks, begun to come to terms with what is expected of him. They've been out on a couple of "exercises", improved their endurance and stamina and just completed a battlefield tour in Belgium and France. That was an eye opener for him ... especially as the whole squadron had to march in the daily parade through the Menin Gate (they hadn't seen that coming). His comments to us were "... it makes you feel proud to be part of something like this although it hits home when you see 60 odd thousand names of soldiers without graves ..."

I do believe he's growing up.

As for the threats of assault mentioned earlier ... only your daughter knows how serious those threats are. Our lad has reported back that they've been threatened and one of the corporals has had to be stopped from hitting one of the recruits but the general feeling (afterwards) was that it was a demonstration or a learning point in order for the recruits to understand that the behaviour they were exhibiting was inappropriate. Our lad has said "... it's not school is it? This lot would rather beat you up than send you out of the room." Again, another realisation that he is in an adult world now - a world where bad things happen if you don't do what you've been told.

The camp CO and the OC of the squadron made it perfectly clear to all the parents and all the recruits that bullying was not allowed and formed no part of the training process at Winchester - however, a direct threat like (true example) " if any of you leave your safety catches off and loose off a round at me, I will shoot you back" can also be seen as a learning point rather than a bullying statement. Your daughter will know if she's being bullied and picked upon because others in the section/troop/squadron will be being treated differently. If they are all being treated the same then it's (probably) nothing to worry about.

Originally Posted by amazon1

I am just trying to find out if direct threats of assualt are allowed or not. Either they are or they aren't.

Believe me this is no cotton-wrapped baby as someone puts it, and she was under the impression there would be shouting and ordering, all the usual expectations of army life. But not constant individual bullying.

Is robust training 'I will smash your face in with this gun?"

A pile of other stuff too, but so far thats the worst (early days yet mind you).

The AFC has an extremely strong anti bullying policy and a multitude of outlets for reporting abuse. As said previously only your daughter knows how serious the situation is and in what context threats are made; if however she is genuinenly concerned she must speak to one of the following: Padre, WRVS, Welfare Officer or one of the Sandies Staff all will assist if required.
I am sure however that threats like that will deffinatley only be nothing more than idle threats, any individual either carrying out those threats or being involved in systematic bullying would be in deep sh*t regardless of their rank.

she says it is not happening in the same way to over 45+ others in her group. I recognise the example given above as relevant however in this instance, the threat was in relation to simply not having done a task correctly, not a serious safety issue or something that can be learned from.

She is constantly picked on and singled out several times a day by the same person. I have cross questioned all of this. Yes the threats may be 'idle' as in scare tactics, but that is what bullying is. What I am trying to find out here, is, are army staff allowed to make a threat of assualt (and whether idle or not). Accordidng to the handbook she was given, it is not allowed.

You mention 'she is in an adult world now' well at well over 19 she has been working with senior adults for over 2 years in an employed capacity and unfortunately she has not had to deal with anything 'bad' (ie threat of assault) happening to her if she did not do as she was told. In fact neither do I or anyone I know.

I have told her to report it to either wrvs or someone else she can approach, today. She does not otherwise want to leave but it seems she is not being given a chance to make headway as this guy is making every attempt to demotivate her and he is not doing it with the others to the same extent. After a year of waiting and training this is most unexpected.

amazon, if you are really worried contact her OC for a quiet word, you should have contact numbers if not ask on here and one of the kind chaps will help out I'm sure.

Cheggars,

Thanks for the advise re food charges. As they have been charged for food whilst on leave will they get it back automatically or do they need to claim it back?

After an ND (blank on ex) I got a swift boot up the ARRSE, and some very choice words shouted at me. I was in the wrong, and didn't do it again. I also had to buy the DS a jar of coffee for the pleasure. But it's better than a charge.

What you're describing sounds like bullying and should be addressed before it gets worse. Being singled out for not doing anything wrong isn't right.

Originally Posted by Luke-675

My mate who is currently at deepcut who went to harrogate said they were always getting threatened, and thrown into lockers and punched and kicked n stuff.

But I'm not sure about man onto girl.

I highly doubt that, the welfare service at the AFC Is second to none.

Probably trying to make himself look good or to scare you.

Originally Posted by Luke-675

But I'm not sure about man onto girl.

No surprise there then.

By the way, I suspect your mate is full of the proverbial and spouting a load of shite to big himself up. Is he perchance a loggie?